What do we gain by having a vote? (minority, Zen)

[coberst]

"What do we gain by having a vote?"

It seems to me that what we gain depends upon what we invest. If the vote is not accompanied by an investment of time and intellect directed at comprehending our self and our world then the vote becomes somewhat like our vote as to what is the best football team, ours or theirs.

Because our citizens invest little of themselves into our democracy it is a shallow popularity poll. Those who run the country give us these political teams that we can choose one or the other to be ‘our team’ and we can battle ‘their team’ and shout and laugh and rage at one another all to no avail because those who run the show use all this just to keep us happy with ‘bread and circus’.

I think that our (US) democracy is a shallow popularity poll. What do you think?

[Terrywoodenpic]

That is now very much so in most democracies.

They say the Greeks invented democracy and every cityzen could vote on every issue.
The truth is the majority of their population had no vote; they were either slaves foreigners or both.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by coberst

"What do we gain by having a vote?"

It seems to me that what we gain depends upon what we invest. If the vote is not accompanied by an investment of time and intellect directed at comprehending our self and our world then the vote becomes somewhat like our vote as to what is the best football team, ours or theirs.

Because our citizens invest little of themselves into our democracy it is a shallow popularity poll. Those who run the country give us these political teams that we can choose one or the other to be ‘our team’ and we can battle ‘their team’ and shout and laugh and rage at one another all to no avail because those who run the show use all this just to keep us happy with ‘bread and circus’.

I think that our (US) democracy is a shallow popularity poll. What do you think?

I can't tell you how many write-in candidates I've voted for in the past 2 decades. The two political parties have a lock on who we get to choose from, and our system is now geared to perpetuation of power within these parties. We live more in an oligarchy than a republic these days.

The essential system is still fine, but the things that have grown around it have polluted the original system so much as to make this "republic" unrecognizable to its Founders.

"Bread and circuses" seems a very apt description. And we're pretty much where Rome was at that point.

[retrorich]

What do we gain by having a vote?

In 2000 and 2004, we gained a war mongering, homophobic, theocratic idiot for a President.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Terrywoodenpic

That is now very much so in most democracies.

They say the Greeks invented democracy and every cityzen could vote on every issue.
The truth is the majority of their population had no vote; they were either slaves foreigners or both.

Or women.

[robtex]

Originally Posted by coberst

"

I think that our (US) democracy is a shallow popularity poll. What do you think?

Great thread and great post!! Gonna frubal you in a second here. First off, we are a republic not a democracy. In a democracy every lay-citizen has an equal voice on the issues at hand.

We are a republic. In a republic we elect officals whom we think will represent our best interests and our ideas and they draft issues and bills plus vote on them.

Voting is a tricky game and the answer to your question isn't black-and-white.
We have a federal govement and than state goverment and within that state goverment local county goverments. The smaller the goverment's population the more our vote can impact the bills proposed and the people presented as potential candidates. Due to lobbying efforts and some areas of business which are oligopolies, at a federal level I would say "our vote" doesn't really have any impact on the decisions made. Your qouted idea of voting as a "popularity contest" holds a lot of merit to me. I don't think the few people who do vote, and it is a small minority, really bother to read-up on and understand the issues they vote on. To me this is a constant reminder of why we should be a republic and not a democracy.

The bills that are proposed on any level are usually proposed after a lobbying effort. Lobbying is probably the least understood componet of our goverment model. For instance, say you want a traffic light installed on main and third due to the number of accidents at the four-way stop sign intersection. If you email your mayor likey it will be deleted or read and discarded and that is that. However, if you organize a group who sends a mutitude of emails and calls the idea of a stop light becomes a "hot issue" and the many times will mayor will act on your idea proposeing a bill to be drafted by a committee.

The larger the goverment's sphere of influnce the less impact lobbists have and the more cold hard cash comes into play. Hence the campaign contribution laws in this country. It is kinda a interesting paradigm when you read about our goverment.

[robtex]

Originally Posted by retrorich

In 2000 and 2004, we gained a war mongering, homophobic, theocratic idiot for a President.

Karl Rove was instrumental in marketing Bush from way back when he was a govener of Texas. Bush originally ran for a congressional postion out in west texas and was crushed by the ( I think deomcratic) incumbant. What changed for Bush was of course his father's political success and Karl Rove. I think without Rove Bush would not be president today. If you get a chance read-up on Rove.

[michel]

The weird thing about political and governmental systems is that nearly all are fine in theory; once you include the 'human' factor into the equation is where you start having problems.

There is no way I could claim to be knowledgeable about all the aspects of politics and the way the different parties here in England interpret them.

I see Democracy in practice as a bit of a joke; the average layman votes with the prime qualifier of "With which party will I personally be better off?".

Sad, but true. This probably sounds dreadfully absurd, but I have always thought that the ideal political system would be 'a benevolent dictatorship'; the trouble is that Jesus Christ would not be available fotr the post, and I think he is the only one whom I would trust.

[NeoWayland]

I'd say that with the current American system, most votes are based on who delivers the goodies or who is the least bad choice.

[robtex]

Originally Posted by michel

There is no way I could claim to be knowledgeable about all the aspects of politics and the way the different parties here in England interpret them.

I see Democracy in practice as a bit of a joke; the average layman votes with the prime qualifier of "With which party will I personally be better off?".

I understand the UK is a parliament that is run as a republic much like he US correct? I find your voting population to be much more policitically savy and rational in their ideas. I wish that Blair and the UK would look less to the USA for political inspiration and the US look more at the UK for policitcal inspiration.