Morality In the Absence Of God? (morals, choice, evolution, morals)

[Sunstone]

In the absence of God, is everything permitted, as some say it is? Or, are there still compelling grounds for a morality? If so, what are those grounds?

Is human nature, properly understood, an adequate basis for morality? Why or why not?

Is the nature of the world and/or the universe, properly understood, and adequate basis for morality? Why or why not?

Can an adequate morality be grounded in reason alone? Why or why not?

Is it even necessary to find a grounds for morality? If so, why? If not, why not?

If there were no deity, and you knew there were no deity, would your own morality change?

[Paw]

In the absence of God, is everything permitted, as some say it is? Or, are there still compelling grounds for a morality? If so, what are those grounds?

Technically, everything could be permitted, but humans would have come up with a certain standard to which people would have to conform to. What things would be permitted is entirely up to the people. If they feel something is immoral, according to their standards, it would not be permitted.

Is human nature, properly understood, an adequate basis for morality? Why or why not?

Humans nature is not much different from animal nature, except humans have the ability to change the way they were made to be (i.e. humans can become vegetarians, but it would never occur to a bear to live solely on plants). And now I'm being reminded of English questions, and thus I am completely unable to answer this question.

Is the nature of the world and/or the universe, properly understood, and adequate basis for morality? Why or why not?

Suffering from what I said above.

Okay, must skip a few questions. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to sleep soon....

If there were no deity, and you knew there were no deity, would your own morality change?

Possibly.

[Super Universe]

There are no compelling grounds for morality. You can be as selfish as you wish because that is human nature, people cut in line, they waste, they readily take more than their share. But this is not God's nature.

It is your choice what to do.

Oh, and God is not absent. He's here watching the discussion through each set of eyes viewing the screen.

[sparc872]

There are no compelling grounds for morality. You can be as selfish as you wish because that is human nature, people cut in line, they waste, they readily take more than their share. But this is not God's nature.

It is your choice what to do.

Oh, and God is not absent. He's here watching the discussion through each set of eyes viewing the screen.

Urantian, if there are no compelling grounds for morality, how are you judging those people who cut in line, waste, and take more than their share?

I like the examples you gave though, because I can use them for my point. Morality is based on the need for peace. The need to coexist with eachother. We shun those who cut in line because it is disruptive. People who take more than their equal share are viewed negatively because they are choosing to ignore the grander community.

Polluting never used to be seen as immoral. A coal company could be pumping out smog producing chemicals all day long, that is, until we learned about the negative impact of pollution. Now someone who dumps their oil down the storm drain is ostracized, even though it was the norm 30 or 40 years ago. The more we learn as a whole, the more we work towards improving society and the world.

Slavery is another great example. A few hundred years ago it was seen largely as ok, but as we grew and learned more about ourselves, we came to the realization that it is not ok. Morality is strongly tied to our level of understanding. It is tied to our need to live peacefully.

[GeneCosta]

In the absence of God, is everything permitted, as some say it is? Or, are there still compelling grounds for a morality? If so, what are those grounds?

Everything is permitted even with a God.

Is human nature, properly understood, an adequate basis for morality? Why or why not?

It can be the backbone of morality, but you need to respect individualism.

Is the nature of the world and/or the universe, properly understood, and adequate basis for morality? Why or why not?

Well, what is the nature of the world? The laws of nature? I would say I base my judgement on killing being wrong off of how rare life is in this universe.

Is it even necessary to find a grounds for morality? If so, why? If not, why not?

If you respect other's morals, then no.

If there were no deity, and you knew there were no deity, would your own morality change?

Nope. Why should I?

[Mike182]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

In the absence of God, is everything permitted, as some say it is? Or, are there still compelling grounds for a morality? If so, what are those grounds?

morality evolved just like everything else, relative to the environment - in this case, the evolution of a social environment and the corrolated growth of morality

Is human nature, properly understood, an adequate basis for morality? Why or why not?

my natural reaction when i am upset is to eat as much chocolate as i can find, doesn't mean that is good for me.

Is the nature of the world and/or the universe, properly understood, and adequate basis for morality? Why or why not?

1) as far as i am concerned, we don't propperly understand the universe

2) if we did understand the universe, i don't see how planet rotations and maths and science gives guidance on day to day life...

Can an adequate morality be grounded in reason alone? Why or why not?

no, because you can never say how you will react to a situation until you are in that situation - for instance, it's easy for me to say i will never kill, but if i came home and found a man with a gun to my family, and i had the opportunity to kill him, would i really not kill him? who knows.... i personally think a morality grounded entirely in reason alienated people, because people make unreasoned decisions (if unreasoned is a word )

Is it even necessary to find a grounds for morality? If so, why? If not, why not?

i think we need some sort of shared morality, otherwise we have no justification for punishing criminal behaviour - the reason for that being, if we had no shared morality, no action can be criminal, rape and murder would be to all extents and purposes justified, which in my mind is not a good state to have.

If there were no deity, and you knew there were no deity, would your own morality change?[/quote]

[Chanan]

Originally Posted by sparc872

We shun those who cut in line because it is disruptive. People who take more than their equal share are viewed negatively because they are choosing to ignore the grander community.

Morality is defined by the needs of the society. In the small hunter/gather societies, conformity was required for the basic survival of the community. If you took more than your share, murdered another community member who was badly needed for hunting, breeding, etc. you would be killed or ejected from the community (which was also a death sentence). The consequences for your transgression would be seen almost immediately (less meat coming into the group, loss of a gene pool, etc.)

In our modern society, you are only removed from that society for the grossest of misconduct but it is still possible to do things to the detriment of that society but the consequences do not appear for a much longer period of time (extinction of species, destroying our planet, overpopulation of planet, etc.)

Now someone who dumps their oil down the storm drain is ostracized, even though it was the norm 30 or 40 years ago. The more we learn as a whole, the more we work towards improving society and the world.

Disagree. If this were true, the same people who ostracise the oil companies would quit using aerosols, use more recycleable materials, stop using the thousands of chemicals found in house cleaning products, etc. They don't because their morality is skewed.

Slavery is another great example. A few hundred years ago it was seen largely as ok, but as we grew and learned more about ourselves, we came to the realization that it is not ok. Morality is strongly tied to our level of understanding. It is tied to our need to live peacefully.

The U.S. was torn apart by civil war over the morality of slavery and the right or wrong of it had little to do with the level of understanding and more with their need requirements.

Humans are basically selfish me-first organisms. As the morality of religion loses its hold, the immorality of society increases. Our current society is a prime example of that.

[retrorich]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

In the absence of God, is everything permitted, as some say it is?

Certainly not!

Or, are there still compelling grounds for a morality? If so, what are those grounds?

Morality should be based on common sense, compassion and personal desire for justice.

Is human nature, properly understood, an adequate basis for morality? Why or why not?

"Human nature" is not in itself an adequate basis for morality, since the nature of individual humans varies greatly. Morality should be reinforced with a reasonable body of civil law.

Is the nature of the world and/or the universe, properly understood, and adequate basis for morality? Why or why not?

Knowledge needs to be coupled with wisdom.

Can an adequate morality be grounded in reason alone? Why or why not?

It can be grounded in reason, but it must be tempered with wisdom and compassion

Is it even necessary to find a grounds for morality? If so, why? If not, why not?/

Each individual determines his/her own grounds for morality. Unfortunately, in the case of some people, morality is based solely on religious dogma.

If there were no deity, and you knew there were no deity, would your own morality change?

No it wouldn't.

[eudaimonia]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Is human nature, properly understood, an adequate basis for morality? Why or why not?

Yes, since it is human nature, properly understood, that will tell you what is good for a human being -- which is to say, that which contributes to a human being's life or well-being.


eudaimonia,

Mark