Are Pagans And Wiccans Demonized? (tradition, beliefs, grace, America)

[Sunstone]

Jason over at The Wild Hunt posted an interesting example of how Pagans and Wiccans sometimes get demonized:

Three young criminals loot and desecrate a string of six churches in Alabama. The local sheriff catches the young men (which he attributes to "God's grace and the prayers of the people") and they now face trial and sentencing. Seems pretty cut and dried doesn't it? Lawbreakers get caught, face justice. But the twist here is what was seized as "evidence" during the search warrant.

"Almost all the items were recovered after officers executed a search warrant at two local residences. Officers also found documents related to Wicca, a pagan religion, and other occult-related documents."

Motive Wicca? While I hope these criminals face justice and are made to repay their debt to society, I also hope that the found "Wicca documents" are thrown out as any sort of evidence in the case. Unless they are also going to start seizing Bibles from Christian criminals as evidence for their motivations.

http://www.wildhunt.org/2006/07/occult-evidence.html

How often do you think it is the case that Paganism and/or Wicca is assumed to be a motve for committing crimes or anti-social acts?

Is there a stigma attached to being Pagan and/or Wiccan? If so, what is that stigma?

What can or should be done about any stigma attached to being Pagan and/or Wicca?

Should Pagans and/or Wiccans protest when they see such things as what Jason descibes happen in their communities?

In general, why do so many people seem to think that any religion which is not their own motivates people to do bad things?

[Radio Frequency X]

There needs to be a change in the Pagan community itself before the stigma will dissolve. Pagans, in general, are not involved with their community and they do not stand up for their beliefs. They tend to cower in the face of the overwhelming and confrontational majority, afraid (or embarrassed?) to address the misconceptions about our beliefs. Furthermore, pagans (on average) do very little in the way of community outreach and charity work, distancing the pagan traditions from the more involved majority religions.

While it is disgraceful how poorly pagans are treated by the majority religions (and even by many atheists), the pagan community must accept responsibility for their own mistakes as well. I know that I resent the way I am treated and it makes me angry, but as pagans, we must understand the historical tensions between our traditions and the universalist traditions that have come to dominate nearly all societies and civiliations.

[Mike182]

Originally Posted by Radio Frequency X

There needs to be a change in the Pagan community itself before the stigma will dissolve. Pagans, in general, are not involved with their community and they do not stand up for their beliefs. They tend to cower in the face of the overwhelming and confrontational majority, afraid (or embarrassed?) to address the misconceptions about our beliefs. Furthermore, pagans (on average) do very little in the way of community outreach and charity work, distancing the pagan traditions from the more involved majority religions.

i agree and i don't.

yes, you are right in that the pagan community does not "reach out" to the community like other religions, but other religions look to convert people through their deeds, the majority of pagans would rather live and let live, while doing charitable works through donations etc.

because of my age and location, i rarely have the opportunity to stand up and protest in any valuable or meaningful way, but when i am at uni i will have more resources at my disposal to start doing this. My RE teacher is pagan, and she doesn't see the fun in backing down from a challenge, and her mentality has rubbed off on me somewhat

While it is disgraceful how poorly pagans are treated by the majority religions (and even by many atheists), the pagan community must accept responsibility for their own mistakes as well. I know that I resent the way I am treated and it makes me angry, but as pagans, we must understand the historical tensions between our traditions and the universalist traditions that have come to dominate nearly all societies and civiliations.

yes, but i think governments can go a long way to easing this tension by including paganism as a religion for RE, because it is mostly ignored.

[Radio Frequency X]

Originally Posted by Mike182

yes, you are right in that the pagan community does not "reach out" to the community like other religions, but other religions look to convert people through their deeds, the majority of pagans would rather live and let live, while doing charitable works through donations etc.

Interesting, so Christian groups go around and build homes for people in order to spread the Word of God, while pagans just donate money? That doesn't sound quite right. Instead of trying to spread paganism, how about we do charity work and community outreach with the motivation to love people? How about from a sense of obligation to our community, to our family, and to those who need help? Maybe if people see pagans doing these kinds of works without trying to spread our own beliefs, we will actually get some respect.

Originally Posted by Mike182

yes, but i think governments can go a long way to easing this tension by including paganism as a religion for RE, because it is mostly ignored.

Maybe. Or maybe government needs to back off of all religion all together.

[Scuba Pete]

The issue here is NOT paganism... it's theft by young kids. I doubt that the documents will make it into court as they have no bearing on the thefts.

However, I took heart from the final words:

Originally Posted by article

Poss said despite the crimes, the men would be welcome to worship at Spruce Pine. "Would they be welcome? Absolutely," he said. "[T]here but for the grace of God go I."

Quite the opposite of what we would have found in this country a hundred years ago. That's real progress, and it doesn't appear that they have demonised anyone here.

[Radio Frequency X]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

The issue here is NOT paganism... it's theft by young kids. I doubt that the documents will make it into court as they have no bearing on the thefts.

Do you think if the cops would have found Bibles that it would have been noteworthy?

I see what you are saying here and I tend to agree with you, but believe me, being a pagan in America isn't easy. I cannot count the number of times my beliefs have been refered to as "evil" or "satan worship" or "ignorant" by Christians and Muslims (even by some of my friends). "I know you don't believe this", she'd say, "but your gods don't exist. You are really worshipping the devil". mmm, great yeah, I feel the love of Christ.

However, in the end, pagans should demand only one thing, and that is freedom. We don't need to force people to like us or respect us, and I suspect Christians will never treat us with respect or social tolerance. But, as long as we have the same rights and freedoms as Christians, Muslims, and Jews, then I say the government is doing its job.

[MaddLlama]

Originally Posted by Radio Frequency X

Interesting, so Christian groups go around and build homes for people in order to spread the Word of God, while pagans just donate money? That doesn't sound quite right. Instead of trying to spread paganism, how about we do charity work and community outreach with the motivation to love people? How about from a sense of obligation to our community, to our family, and to those who need help? Maybe if people see pagans doing these kinds of works without trying to spread our own beliefs, we will actually get some respect.

The difference is that when religious individuals belonging to a religion that seek to convert people do charity work, they have no problems up front telling you "I'm a Christian, and I want to help you". Pagans on the other hand, as I have seen, are much more subtle about thier religion in public and may not even mention it to anyone. Just because there are no Pagan community outreach groups doesn't mean individual Pagan's don't contribute to their community. They do, they just don't think it's completely necessary to tell everyone they help all about thier religion.
That, I think, is a better way of doing things.

[MaddLlama]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

The issue here is NOT paganism... it's theft by young kids. I doubt that the documents will make it into court as they have no bearing on the thefts.

Yes, exactly. So, why did they even bother to mention "Wiccan materials" at all? Obviously someone in the police department disagrees with you, or else they wouldn't have mentioned it at all.

However, I took heart from the final words: Quite the opposite of what we would have found in this country a hundred years ago. That's real progress, and it doesn't appear that they have demonised anyone here.

So, it's "progress" to say that being a Wiccan is a possible motivation for a crime, and even though they're devil worshippers and criminals, we'll still let them in our church? Please, spare me.
There are some areas that are so Christian oriented that any Pagan presence meets with a lot of resistance, even where the law is concerned. In certain areas where Christianity is the norm, I've heard reports of child services using Paganism as an excuse to take away children, and somewhat recently there was a judge who told Pagan parents that they couldn't teach thier son about thier religion in thier own home because they sent him to Catholic school.
Is that progress as well?

[Radio Frequency X]

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

The difference is that when religious individuals belonging to a religion that seek to convert people do charity work, they have no problems up front telling you "I'm a Christian, and I want to help you". Pagans on the other hand, as I have seen, are much more subtle about thier religion in public and may not even mention it to anyone. Just because there are no Pagan community outreach groups doesn't mean individual Pagan's don't contribute to their community. They do, they just don't think it's completely necessary to tell everyone they help all about thier religion.
That, I think, is a better way of doing things.

I think it is important to be upfront about who you are and what you believe, because what you believe matters. Who you are is important. Pagans don't stay quiet because of conviction, they stay quiet because of fear (for the most part, I'n sure this isn't universally true). Religion and philosophy is an important part of our lives, and forming groups and traditions is a long-standing human habit. Doing good works through these groups and traditions is a way of demonstrating the values and philosophies they hold. Now, I'm all for individualism in paganism, but I think that if pagans want to be treated the way other people are treated, then they'll have to accept the same standards. Otherwise, pagans should not be quick to complain that they are treated differently, or even badly (so long as we have equal rights).

Personally, I don't belong to any tradition and I don't advocate any particular religious beliefs. But I do stand up for the pagan traditions, for pluralism, for tolerance, and for inclusion. I've done work with Christian charities in order to demonstrate that pagan and christian can work side by side.

[michel]

"Other or Depends. ". As far as I am concerned there isn't, but I am sure that there are Religious groups who frown on Pagans and wiccans.

People who don't 'like' a group usually do so because they are scared of them, and why scared ? Because they don't understand them.