Major A-ha about tolerance (salvation, beliefs, attend, America, experience)

[maggie2]

Yesterday I had a major a-ha about tolerance that I wanted to share with you all. From reading posts on this forum I recognize that there are several here who choose to practice tolerance towards all religions and ideas and I consider myself one of those. However, I am often left speechless by some of the intolerant things that are said by those who believe that their faith is the only right one and those who hold extremely fundamentalist beliefs.

I've struggled with the question of how to be tolerant and yet not point out their intolerance. I suspect that many others have had and continue to have this same internal struggle.

As you all also know, recently there were 17 men and boys arrested here in Canada for alleged terrorist acts. Yesterday in one of our newspapers there was a piece that stated that apparently the oldest of these guys (who is 43) has been leading prayers at his mosque on Friday evenings and that he has been making radical statements at these times. In fact, apparently several parents have refused to allow their teens to attend Friday prayers because they don't want the teens being exposed to his comments. It also said that the spokesman for the Muslim Canadian Congress said that this mosque originally belonged to a group of Muslim moderates but "was taken over". It also said that the Imam of the mosque stated that Jamal's prayers had a more strident tone than other prayer leaders. So they all knew he was radical. And nobody spoke up or did one thing to stop him.

That made me realize that I would expect some of the moderates to do something or request that he not be allowed to spew his venom in their mosque but they didn't. It also made me realize that tolerance, in this instance, had created a monster and seemed to have no value in supporting the greater good. It made me realize that while tolerance has its place, there must come a time when we speak out against intolerance, whether we are tolerant or not.

I then realized that if I had cancer I sure as heck would not ignore it. I would get my butt off to the doctor and do everything in my power to excise that disease. I could not possibly create health by ignoring the cancer! And I cannot create tolerance by ignoring intolerance either. None of us can. We need to speak out against intolerance whether that is seen as intolerant or not.

So my HUGE a-ha was that we cannot afford to allow the cancer of intolerance to grow. It needs to be excised if we hope to restore any health to our world. We need to stop the disease and then we can begin the treatments that will lead us back to health. Ignoring cancer won't heal it and ignoring intolerance won't stop it either.

I believe that we are either part of the problem or part of the solution. I will no longer be part of the problem by ignoring intolerance. I want to be part of the solution. I want to be free of the cancer of intolerance. I will speak up and in every way attempt to shine the light of love on the intolerance we experience. I expect the Muslim community to do so. I can do no less.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by maggie2

I am often left speechless by some of the intolerant things that are said by those who believe that their faith is the only right one and those who hold extremely fundamentalist beliefs.

I believe that we are either part of the problem or part of the solution. I will no longer be part of the problem by ignoring intolerance.

Maggie,
In essence I agree with what you are saying....but on the reverse side of that would have to say that you would be showing intolerant behavior by not allowing me to have my faith that says there is only one way to salvation.

I hope you would agree that since I'm not trying to force my faith down your throat and make you believe the same way, that I am not being intolerant. In fact, I am highly tolerant of other faiths and think everyone should have the right to practice as they believe....just don't expect me to agree that those paths are the right way.

[Sunstone]

Maggie, it seems to me that several or perhaps even many of the parents in that group were voting with their feet when they didn't allow their kids to attend Friday prayers. Not allowing your kids to participate in Friday prayers would send a very strong message to any Iman worth his salt, I think. If the Iman didn't remove this radical, then that's the Iman's fault, and not the fault of the parents who took action to oppose the radical.

Moreover moderates everwhere tend to vote with their feet much more often than we give them credit for doing, I think. Moderates also tend to talk quietly with their friends about things that concern them. I saw that very vividly in the small town I grew up in.

Just because moderates don't typically hold rallies is by itself no reason to suppose they are apathetic or inactive. I strongly suspect moderates in the Muslim community are quietly asserting themselves. After all, who do you suppose brought these would be terrorists to the attention of the authorities? It seems implausible to suppose the Canadian government has undercover agents in every mosque in Canada. I rather suspect some folks quietly informed the authorities that they'd been approached by those fools to take part in terrorist activities. Stuff like that, rather than rallies, are more the style of moderate activism.

[SoyLeche]

So, who get's to decide which intollerance is OK and which isn't?

[Pah]

Originally Posted by SoyLeche

So, who get's to decide which intollerance is OK and which isn't?

I think everybody and nobody gets to decide. Isn't intolerance subjective?

[Cerrax]

As Voltaire once said "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voicing you opinion is fine. Brainwashing is not. Another great mind to quote "A lie told often enough becomes truth." -Karl Marx

Intolerance is not simply stating your hatred for something, its your disruptive and possibly violent action(s) against it.
Example:
African-Americans have sit-ins in white restaurants. Good intolerance.
Peaceful protesting and civil disobedience of Ghandi. Good intolerance.
Black Panther wreak revenge on the White Menace. Bad intolerance.
Riots and brawls outside of an abortion clinic. Bad intolerance.

[lasthope]

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

I think this quote speaks for me. So that is all I will say.

[kreeden]

Maggie , I agree with what you are basically saying . There comes a time when you HAVE to stand up for what you believe and for what is right .

But , if we are not careful , we can become that which we fight ... So choose your battles carefully . And when you do go into battle , fight to win .

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by SoyLeche

So, who get's to decide which intollerance is OK and which isn't?

I do.

Intolerance that leads to violence or coercion is not okay.

As far as I know, they haven't even filed charges in this case yet, much less found anybody guilty, but the picture we're getting so far is of a middle-aged man, described by other Muslims as a radical and a "freelancer" involved in "creating a Islamacist, supremacist cult" who may have incited young people to plot a terrorist act. If this picture is accurate -- and even if it's not -- I think Maggie's being very reasonable in saying that members of religious communities have a responsibility to speak out against growing intolerance in their own communities. Do you disagree?