Is America just as socialist as capitalist, and would that be a problem? (service, science)

[GeneCosta]

To start, I consider myself a socialist libertarian, though I still believe in free-markets.

Although some people might disagree, we won the Cold War on the idealogy that capitalism beats socialism. The Soviet Union collapsed because of overspending by the government, and because Perestroika led people into a more capitalist envirement, they wanted to have more "freedom" when it came to the market. Capitalism won, the government and die-hard capitalists would tell you. But did it?

In the 30s we went through huge progress in socialism. Capitalism worked against our people, and FDR, faced with either waiting the mess out or helping his people along, chose to help. Luckily for the people at the time, it was so beneficial that the money recovered and gain put us through the Depression and World War 2 and made us a super power ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gdp33-41.jpg). He put in programs we still have today, namely welfare. Thanks to welfare the poor in America don't have to live like the poor in Africa, Asia, Latin America, or Asia.

We have laws that prevent monopolies. In theory, that goes against the goal of capitalism: grow as much as you can. John Rockefeller was a die-hard capitalism. We also have laws that say you HAVE to pay out a certain wage. We have laws that say you HAVE to sell soap to a black man at the same price you would sell it to a white man. If we're going on capitalism, why should the business owner comply to that? He's out to make money, after all.

I think the ideal situation is to half 50 percent free-market and 50 percent controlled. Socialism is just as good as capitalism, and in the same way, just as bad. Yet we still live by Cold War mentality. Why is that? Is the older generation still teaching our youth to mistrust ALL things related to communists, that their ideals are just as evil as the terrorists?

[standing_alone]

Though I don't know if a 50-50 approach to the market (I tend to be a socialist, but understand we have to work with the free-market), maybe it should fluctuate according to the economic situation (then again, I'm no economist), in order to operate more flexibly and to respond better to changes in the market.

Originally Posted by GeneCosta

Yet we still live by Cold War mentality. Why is that? Is the older generation still teaching our youth to mistrust ALL communists, that they're just as evil as the terrorists?

Well, the Cold War is still part of recent history. Most people posting on this forum were at least born by the end of the Cold War. I think since it's so recent in our history, the mentalities developed from that time still exist, and thus it is what is passed down. But I'm probably wrong.

[GeneCosta]

Actually, I think you're right. It's just our text books continue to be anti-socialist, anti-communist, and we complain about other countries throwing around their propoganda.

Thanks for the reply.

Though I don't know if a 50-50 approach to the market (I tend to be a socialist, but understand we have to work with the free-market),

50-50 was me throwing out a number. I like your idea of being an economic relativist.

[standing_alone]

Originally Posted by GeneCosta

It's just our text books continue to be anti-socialist, anti-communist, and we complain about other countries throwing around their propoganda.

Yeah, they certainly did when I was in K-12 public education (not that we had texts in Kindergarten, especially on economic issues ), but now that I'm in college, the text books seem to treat socialism/communism far more objectively as an ideology - but that might also be since I'm a political science major and therefore the texts go over the ideology independently of Soviet-style communism, though it will also cover Soviet-style communism (but I think I'm starting to ramble ).

[Booko]

Originally Posted by GeneCosta

To start, I consider myself a socialist libertarian, though I still believe in free-markets.

Although some people might disagree, we won the Cold War on the idealogy that capitalism beats socialism. The Soviet Union collapsed because of overspending by the government, and because Perestroika led people into a more capitalist envirement, they wanted to have more "freedom" when it came to the market. Capitalism won, the government and die-hard capitalists would tell you. But did it?

The Soviet Union collapsed because it was as system that ignored human motivations for doing work. The big joke was that more food was produced by individuals' truck gardens than collective farms. When you have no motivation to do a good job at your official means of employment, what you get is corruption, nepotism and a busy black market. Those things lead to a downfall of a gov't.

If you think capitalism won, please take a hard look at our economy and its sustainability. I'm hardly an anti-capitalist, but it is not the be-all and end-all of economic systems, and its weakness are becoming more apparent with every passing year.

We have laws that prevent monopolies. In theory, that goes against the goal of capitalism: grow as much as you can.

It was *runaway* capitalism that brought on the stock market crash and Depression, and the recognition of the dangers of having too much of a country's wealth in the hands of too few let to those laws preventing monopolies, not to mention the "estate tax." The only reason those laws got passed was because in the Depression, the very rich felt the squeeze too. Many of them were financially ruined.

If we're going on capitalism, why should the business owner comply to that? He's out to make money, after all.

Again, because there is some recognition that keeping a permanent underclass in society is not an advantage to the economy. Who will buy the businessman's products and services if no one has money just to buy enough food? It's to everyone's advantage that people who work be able to have enough disposable income to keep the economy going.

I think the ideal situation is to half 50 percent free-market and 50 percent controlled. Socialism is just as good as capitalism, and in the same way, just as bad. Yet we still live by Cold War mentality. Why is that? Is the older generation still teaching our youth to mistrust ALL things related to communists, that their ideals are just as evil as the terrorists?

I don't live in the Cold War mentality, though I lived through it. I didn't hold the Cold War mentality during the Cold War, for that matter. I know a bugaboo created to lull the American public when I see one. In the 80s the bugaboo was drugs. Today's bugaboo is terrorism. How would the powers-that-be control us, if they can't find a way to motivate us through fear?

For a little fun, read Noam Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent" sometime. For those of you with Netflix, you can get an interview of the same name.

[standing_alone]

Originally Posted by Booko

The Soviet Union collapsed because it was as system that ignored human motivations for doing work.

I don't think that is the sole factor in the collapse of the Soviet Union. Certainly military spending attributed to the collapse as well.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by standing_alone

I don't think that is the sole factor in the collapse of the Soviet Union. Certainly military spending attributed to the collapse as well.

I'd say it just speeded up the inevitable. It's true that we were able to outspend them, and that added strain to their economy just put it in the dumpers.

[standing_alone]

Originally Posted by Booko

I'd say it just speeded up the inevitable. It's true that we were able to outspend them, and that added strain to their economy just put it in the dumpers.

True, but I think it was more a combination of factors, rather than just a system that worked against "human natue" or "motivation." The Soviet government cared more about keeping up with the United States in the Arms Race than the well-being of its citizens. But I am no expert on the USSR and its collapse, so I should probably just shut up.

[Booko]