Is culture just changing, or is it on the decline? (ritual, tradition)

[kevmicsmi]

I think we're also seeing the battle between absolutism and relativism in the deep divide within the American political culture. Here, we describe it as a battle between cultural "conservatives" and "liberals", but when we dig a little deeper into the definitions of each of these groups what we will find beneath are mostly philosophical absolutists who are trying to "conserve" their understanding and way life (they want a return to some idealized "past" where right was right and wrong was wrong, and everyone understood the difference), and philosophical relativists who can no longer live by what they see as such pointless and oppressive cultural restraints. They want a "liberated" (relativist) society in which people choose for themselves what they believe is "right" and "wrong" and are free to live accordingly.

Really? Interesting....Wasnt it the enlightened "relativists" who pushed smoking bans in private establishments? Isnt it the "relativists" who push for more EPA control resulting in limmited property rights? Isnt it the relativists on college campuses who have enacted and enforced "Hate speech" rules (unless it is against a conservative)? Arent the relativists the ones labeling oil companies evil? Isnt it the relativists who decry protecting borders as "racist"? Dont the relativists try to force companies to hire certain percentages of minority employees? Dont the relativists think its wrong for "the rich" not to pay half their income in taxes?(funny term, depending on who is talking, 'the rich' always has a different definition, but almost always does not include who is talking) Isnt Walmart evil to the relativists?

Oh well, I wont say having similar views to the above is bad though, I would hate for anyone to disassociate me with the enlightened relativists.

[kevmicsmi]

And this is why we're seeing such an increase in culturally based violence around the world, and such an increase in conservative activism.

Absolutely, because violence and conservative activism always run hand in hand.....Just ask Rep. Cynthia "Sugar Ray" McKinney

[PureX]

Originally Posted by kevmicsmi

Really? Interesting....Wasnt it the enlightened "relativists" who pushed smoking bans in private establishments?

No, it wasn't. It was conservative non-smokers who didn't want their pristine lungs invaded by the air borne toxins of other people. They may call themselves liberal, and you of course may desperately want to label them "liberals", but in fact they are conservatives, as they are trying to "conserve" their own way of life (smoke free) at the expense of other people's right and desire to live differently. By the definition of this desire, they are conservatives.

Originally Posted by kevmicsmi

Isnt it the "relativists" who push for more EPA control resulting in limmited property rights?

No. that would be the environmentalists who believe that the Earth does not belong to us just because we wrote our named down on a piece of paper and then imagine that we are free to exploit it in any way we choose. Whether you agree with them or not, they are not especially liberal or conservative, unless perhaps we consider them conservative in the sense that they want to conserve the environment.

Originally Posted by kevmicsmi

Isnt it the relativists on college campuses who have enacted and enforced "Hate speech" rules (unless it is against a conservative)?

No. That would be the idealists among us who imagine that by changing the way we speak to and behave toward each other, we can change the way we think about each other. Idealists can be liberal or conservative.

Originally Posted by kevmicsmi

Arent the relativists the ones labeling oil companies evil?

No, that would be the imaginary "liberals" invented by the professional media liars, who are paid by the oil companies themselves to stir up the guile of fools and idiots against anyone who would dare to countermand their desire for even bigger profits.

Originally Posted by kevmicsmi

Isnt it the relativists who decry protecting borders as "racist"?

A lot of the outcry to "protect our borders" is racism masquerading as conservatism. And a lot of it is just plain conservatism. It's difficult to tell the difference, sometimes.

Originally Posted by kevmicsmi

Dont the relativists try to force companies to hire certain percentages of minority employees?

No. Mostly the only people clamoring for quotas these days are the people who will be directly benefited by them. They aren't especially liberal or conservative. They're just looking out for themselves.

Originally Posted by kevmicsmi

Dont the relativists think its wrong for "the rich" not to pay half their income in taxes?(funny term, depending on who is talking, 'the rich' always has a different definition, but almost always does not include who is talking) Isnt Walmart evil to the relativists?

I don't know ... maybe. I think most relativists would say that we should pay taxes relative to social needs, and to our ability to do so.

Relativists don't believe in a "evil" as an absolute ideal, so no, they don't think Walmart is "evil". They may think Walmart is harmful to humanity, generally. I don't know.

Originally Posted by kevmicsmi

Oh well, I wont say having similar views to the above is bad though, I would hate for anyone to disassociate me with the enlightened relativists.

Well, you work very hard at maintaining the idea that "liberals" are some sort of evil bogeymen, out to destroy all that's good and right in the world. So of course you wouldn't want to be associated with anything "liberal". But in truth you're just a victim of your own need for scape-goating people, and of the greed of those who are happy to fuel that need with their lies and self-serving propaganda.

The term "tool" comes to mind.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Victor

I am of the thinking that both relativism and absoluteness of truth can and should survive together. Not compete against each other. I confess my fear of relativism coming out full fledged in our society. Perhaps it is an irrational fear but I just can't think of a solution to relativism. Nothing binds it, and there lies my fear.

I have a view of relativism that is a little different, religiously speaking anyway. There is an absolute truth, and God knows it. The rest of us have limited views, so we cannot perceive the absolute truth -- to us it is relative. That doesn't mean we get to do just anything we feel like. God sends prophets from time to time to give us a view of that absolute truth and remind us that following our egos alone doesn't lead to much good.

Since my view of truth is relative, I don't get my nose out of joint because you and I do not share the exact same understanding of the nature of God. That God exists and is benevolent is plenty to agree about to start with. That kind of relativism leads to tolerance and acceptance.

otoh, there are things that are much less relative -- things people from all sorts of backgrounds agree on, like the importance of being honest, eschewing violence, etc. On those matters, we often view them as absolutes or near absolutes. Even the more relativistic users here will come to the forefront and defend the need for justice. They are not so relative as you think, perhaps.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by kevmicsmi

So if this supposed Ice Age is the fault of our culture of advancement, how did we cause all of the other naturally occuring Ice ages and warming trends throughout history?

Were you expecting to understand climatology in 25 words or less?

[Booko]

Originally Posted by kevmicsmi

Absolutely, because violence and conservative activism always run hand in hand.....Just ask Rep. Cynthia "Sugar Ray" McKinney

Please refrain from using swear words on this forum, kev...

I live in her district.


Feel free to continue this with me in PM if you want. Be sure you're sitting down when you read my replies.

[Scarlett Wampus]

Originally Posted by gnomon

In regards to a massive change of global culture I do not see it and wish those that do could provide some evidence.

I can't think of a collectively recognisable global shift in any one direction except this: there is an accelerating rate of change in practically every culture. It would be hard to provide evidence for such a thing because its more of an impression than something you could specifically point to, but would you disagree?

Things seem to be moving - changing - so fast.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Booko

I have a view of relativism that is a little different, religiously speaking anyway.

Do share.

Originally Posted by Booko

There is an absolute truth, and God knows it. The rest of us have limited views, so we cannot perceive the absolute truth -- to us it is relative.

Wait, are you equating absolute truth to all truth?

Originally Posted by Booko

That doesn't mean we get to do just anything we feel like. God sends prophets from time to time to give us a view of that absolute truth and remind us that following our egos alone doesn't lead to much good.

Nevermind, I think this answered my question.

Originally Posted by Booko

Since my view of truth is relative,

I honestly don't follow why you say this. Are you equating relative to limited?

Originally Posted by Booko

I don't get my nose out of joint because you and I do not share the exact same understanding of the nature of God. That God exists and is benevolent is plenty to agree about to start with. That kind of relativism leads to tolerance and acceptance.

I deffinately agree here. But it can also lead to tolerance of everything under the moon.