The Irrational Side? (choice, America, myths, heaven, mercy)

[Sunstone]

Robert Bly has a poem:

"One Source Of Bad Information"

There's a boy in you about three
Years old who hasn't learned a thing for thirty
Thousand years. Sometimes it's a girl.

This child had to make up its mind
How to save you from death. He said things like:
"Stay home. Avoid elevators. Eat only elk."

You live with this child, but you don't know it.
You're in the office, yes, but live with this boy
At night. He's uniformed, but he does want

To save your life. And he has. Because of this boy
You've survived a lot. He's got six big ideas.
Five don't work. Right now he's repeating them to you.


What do you think of Bly's claim that there is an innate irrational side to human nature? Do you think, like Bly, that side is ancient, primeval? Assuming Bly is substantially correct, what is the prospect for humans to ever be completely rational? Lastly, are we so irrational that we will destroy ourselves? What do you think?

[jeffrey]

We do have an innate irrational side, but that keeps us from all being the same. Heaven forbid living in a world with all Spocks. Gambling. Your going to lose most of the time, but some of us still do it. It's the fun side. And I'm sure many invention has come from being irrational. Destroy us? Maybe one day. But not today.

[evearael]

I believe the capacity for irrational thought to be a survival mechanism. Like we a flock of geese disperse momentarily when targeted by a fox, irrationality randomizes behavior to an extent when faced with a choice under stress. It's not always useful for the individual, but healthy in its own special way for the continuing of the species.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by evearael

I believe the capacity for irrational thought to be a survival mechanism. Like we a flock of geese disperse momentarily when targeted by a fox, irrationality randomizes behavior to an extent when faced with a choice under stress. It's not always useful for the individual, but healthy in its own special way for the continuing of the species.

I'm a bit confused. Do you mean you believe in group selection?

[Feathers in Hair]

I'm not sure if, wired the way we are currently, complete rationality is an option. Jeffrey made an interesting point, though I wonder something- are emotion and rationality completely incompatable?

(Thanks for posting the poem, Phil! I've got to read more Bly!)

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by FeathersinHair

I'm not sure if, wired the way we are currently, complete rationality is an option. Jeffrey made an interesting point, though I wonder something- are emotion and rationality completely incompatable?

I think they are. It's my belief that the notion emotion and rationality are incompatible is a myth. I know a few people who are as much both emotional and rational as anyone is either. But maybe not everyone has the sort of basic personality for that.

(Thanks for posting the poem, Phil! I've got to read more Bly!)

You might want to read his study of poetry, American Poetry: Wildness and Domesticity. It's quite good. Also, the poem in the OP comes from his book of poetry, Morning Poems. Bly was experiencing a hiatus in his writing, so he finally decided to solve it by refusing to get out of bed each morning until he had written a poem. Clever, huh?

[Scarlett Wampus]

The irrational is far more powerful and innate than most realise, and it doesn't have to be the demon Bly makes it out to be if it can be rooted out, understood and carefully dealt with.

I'm a religious person right? Does that mean that I find my religious inclinations rational? Not at all! I know they are irrational, I know full well they are 'myths'. I deliberately choose to nudge and channel the irrational in particular ways for my own sake, yet in order to do that without being completely at the mercy of otherwise blind irrational impulses I have to use and further develop my rational judgement to give me a rudder to choose what stays and what goes, what is encouraged and what is inhibited. They can work together.

[Scarlett Wampus]

And yes the irrational is primitive and archaic. That's why its so powerful. If you can cautiously tap into that then you can animate the mind in creative and potentially wonderful ways.