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Reload this Page Love spells & free will (Jesus, choice, dogma, God)
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  #1  
Old 09-20-2004, 07:26 PM
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Default Love spells & free will
In the 'Love Spells' thread, almost everyone seemed to agree that forcing someone to love you is wrong. My question then is this--wouldn't it follow then that God forcing us to love Him would also be wrong? In other threads I remember dicussing this along the lines of free will, and some said that they would rather God ( supposing He exists ) had not given them free will. But isn't free will directly related to love? Without free will, there can be no real love. So if we say it is wrong to force others to love us, wouldn't it therefore also be wrong for God to force us to love Him?
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  #2  
Old 09-20-2004, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope
In the 'Love Spells' thread, almost everyone seemed to agree that forcing someone to love you is wrong. My question then is this--wouldn't it follow then that God forcing us to love Him would also be wrong? In other threads I remember dicussing this along the lines of free will, and some said that they would rather God ( supposing He exists ) had not given them free will. But isn't free will directly related to love? Without free will, there can be no real love. So if we say it is wrong to force others to love us, wouldn't it therefore also be wrong for God to force us to love Him?
I don't feel forced to love God. Some might misinterpret dogma and come to that conclusion.
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  #3  
Old 09-21-2004, 02:57 PM
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But the point is, since god is omnipotent, he could make it so that we would always love god, and it would be a perfect love. Not forced, but accepted by everybody. That is, if god was omnipotent. And if we were forced to love by magic, the love would be no less real. It would just have a different source. Now, if one was forced to act like they loved someone, that is a different story.
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  #4  
Old 09-21-2004, 03:15 PM
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The thing is He wants to give us choice, thus He does not make us love Him.
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  #5  
Old 09-22-2004, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Mister Emu
The thing is He wants to give us choice, thus He does not make us love Him.
Exactly my point. Whether or not God used 'magic' or His powers, to make us love Him, it would still be FORCING love. I am going to suppose I am in love with some wonderful man. Now, I am going to suppose that he is not in love with me. I will also suppose that I possess some magic that will make him love me. So the choice lies before me--I could easily make him love me if I wished, and boy do i want him to love me, but, then--would that really be the kind of 'love' I truly want? What i really, really want is for someone to love me because they choose to love me. Because they look at me and make a conscious decision to love me, to choose to love ME, and not someone else. Because in their eyes I am loveable and special. Using the magic is the easy way, and will not give me the love I truly desire. This is how I see God loving us. He desires a genuine love--not some 'fake' love that He magically puts in us.
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Old 09-22-2004, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Hope
Exactly my point. Whether or not God used 'magic' or His powers, to make us love Him, it would still be FORCING love. I am going to suppose I am in love with some wonderful man. Now, I am going to suppose that he is not in love with me. I will also suppose that I possess some magic that will make him love me. So the choice lies before me--I could easily make him love me if I wished, and boy do i want him to love me, but, then--would that really be the kind of 'love' I truly want? What i really, really want is for someone to love me because they choose to love me. Because they look at me and make a conscious decision to love me, to choose to love ME, and not someone else. Because in their eyes I am loveable and special. Using the magic is the easy way, and will not give me the love I truly desire. This is how I see God loving us. He desires a genuine love--not some 'fake' love that He magically puts in us.
Is love really based on conscious choice? Do we consciously choose to love someone? Or do we merely love those people whom it is in our nature to love? I think the latter. And I would apply the same to God. We love him if and only if it is in our nature to love him.
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  #7  
Old 09-22-2004, 01:53 AM
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Fair point, Sunstone. However, here you are basing your judgment on only one aspect, or 'type', of love--love in the emotional sense. But love is more than a feeling. Real love, ultimately, is a choice, a conscious decision. That is why Jesus told us to love our enemies. Of course it is not natural for us to love our enemies--it goes against everything within us. We cannot love our enemies with a 'feeling' of love--it must be so much more than that. And I think that in His telling us to love our enemies, Jesus is commanding us to the highest love of all--Divine, perfect love. God does not love us merely because it is in His nature to do so. He chooses to love us, even when that love is not returned. And that is the best kind of love--pure and selfless.
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