Drinking... (religion, Roman)

[joeboonda]

I drink a good bit of vodka most nights and have a cigarette and go to bed. I used to smoke pot too, but I am scared of jail. But, if I could I would drink a bit of vodka or some beer, have a good bong hit, and a cig or two each evening. That's probably bad, but, I am being honest, so, there ya go. If I need deliverance from it, then I will get it, and there are times I must cut back, cuz sometimes I drink too much. God is still working on me.

[Bastet]

I can't believe I just wasted all this time reading the whole thread. At the risk of actually responding to the OP...

I think alcohol is fine in moderation - but not so great if you have an addictive personality, or have had a previous problem with alcohol. Then you have to be very careful.

I don't drink very often, I'm lucky to have a drink once a month most of the year. I find I drink more over the summer months though, because I am quite partial to a cold beer on a hot day, and it's nice on warm evenings to kick back with a bevvy or two. I rarely drink more than 2 or 3 drinks in one sitting, because on the occasions that I do, I invariably end up off my face and either spewing, hung over the next day, or both. That's not fun. I don't tend to go out to clubs with my friends (except on rare special occasions - birthdays, engagements, stuff like that), for this reason. I don't enjoy myself unless I get fairly drunk, and then I always regret doing so the next day. They stopped asking me out a long time ago, cause I said 'no' too often.

Drinking when you're depressed is bad, IMO. It only numbs you up for the time you are drunk, and your problems are always there the next day. It doesn't solve anything. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. The longer you do it, the worse things get. Your problems seem bigger, so you drink more/more often to cope...it's an ugly cycle that can be difficult to break. I know of one or two people right now who are doing this to themselves, and I want to shake them and make them see what they are doing. There's nothing worse than watching someone you care about drowning in a bottle because they don't want to face their problems and do something constructive to deal with them.

[Flappycat]

Hmm. My grandparents had a little bit of alcohol every Saturday on lazy evenings until the day they died. My parents are on their way to doing the same. My siblings and I are following pretty much the same trend. I can't believe people can actually get addicted to it. It's nice to sip some on lazy, sun-drenched Saturday evenings, but that's about the extent of its utility. I can't really imagine another use for it. Really, I can't really imagine someone not sipping slowly on a nice, tingly, alcoholic beverage on a lazy, sun-drenched Saturday evening. I guess, if something stays in a family long enough, it turns into a law of nature or something.

[TheTruthWillSetUFree]

Two Opposing Camps
There are two primary camps of thought on this sensitive topic. The first group argues that Jesus Himself drank wine, and since a Christian is a follower of Christ, how can it be forbidden? And generally, they add with a moderate air: "but even so, drinking should not be done to excess."
Then there is the other position: Alcohol is an addictive and destructive drug that no sincere Christian should use in any degree.
Of course, between these two diametrically opposed poles, there are countless variations of opinions. In this short time, I cannot possibly address the whole spectrum of perspectives-so using the Scripture and common sense, I will attempt to stay within the core principles.
In fairness, I will state from the beginning that I am firmly in the unfermented camp! I believe that scriptural references to Jesus' use of wine are of the grape juice variety.
But before the wine connoisseurs toss this magazine aside, you owe it to yourself to hear me out. I come from the perspective of one who grew up frequently drinking wine or beer with dinner-I once even brewed my own beer and made wine. But I have never been an alcoholic, so my position is not the result of overreacting from a "clean and sober" victory.
What Is Alcohol?
Let's begin with a definition.
There are many forms of this compound called alcohol. However, there is no mistaking that all of them are classified as poisons-toxins to the human body. The alcohol found in beverages such as beer, wine, and brandy is ethanol (C2H5OH), a clear, highly flammable liquid that has a burning taste and a characteristic ethereal odor.
What happens when one consumes this type of alcohol? Well, death usually occurs if the concentration of ethanol in the bloodstream exceeds about five percent! But even for those who use it sparingly, immediate behavioral changes, impairment of vision and judgment, and unconsciousness can occur at lower concentrations.
That's interesting, isn't it? That's exactly the same effect that other illicit drugs, such as heroin and marijuana, have on those who use those substances. I doubt there are any Christian churches that would condone the use of these drugs in even a casual social setting-or to even "calm the nerves" before bedtime. Is there any reason that alcohol should not be included in this list of drugs to avoid?
Two Types of Wine-Biblically Speaking
The word "wine" in the Bible sometimes refers to the new, or fresh, juice of the grape; other times it is used to describe the aged or fermented product containing the drug alcohol. The translators never used the term "grape juice." In the Hebrew text, the writers use different words to distinguish between the two. The word t?is used for new unfermented wine, and yayin is generally used for fermented wine, but there are some exceptions (Isaiah 16:10). However, in the New Testament, only one Greek word is used to describe both fermented and fresh grape juice: oinis. But this shouldn't be a problem. By simply understanding the context of the word in a passage, the appropriate meaning will usually surface. So unless the passage says old or new wine (as in Luke 5:37-39), the context will often tell us what kind of grape juice is being described.
One simple example occurs in Mark 2:22: "And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; or else the new wine bursts the wineskins, the wine is spilled, and the wineskins are ruined. But new wine must be put into new wineskins." Obviously, the new wine would be the fresh unfermented variety.
Additionally, from the Old Testament, in Isaiah 65:8, we read, "As the new wine is found in the cluster ... one says, 'Do not destroy it, For a blessing is in it' " It is clear in both these passages that the new wine is simply grape juice.
Weak Reasoning; Poor Judgment
The whole of Scripture is clearly and adamantly against the consumption of alcohol, but human nature will look upon any textual ambiguity as a "loophole" to justify drinking alcohol.
An example of this reasoning is the wedding in Cana, where Jesus turned water into wine. Those who support the intake of alcohol suggest this must have been alcoholic wine-after all, it was a wedding, and every wedding has wine-right? But let's pause to consider the implications. There were six pots for Jesus to fill, and each of those would hold 20 to 30 gallons. That's up to 180 gallons of beverage! Are we to believe that Jesus made 180 gallons of a destructive drug-enough to get every guest drunk and launch this new marriage with slurring lips and staggering feet? Indeed, He would have been acting against His own Word (Habakkuk 2:15; Luke 12:45; Ephesians 5:18)! If we approach this passage relying on the whole of Scripture, we must surely come to the conclusion that Jesus made unfermented wine-and the governor of the feast complimented the groom on its pure quality (John 2:4-10

[Flappycat]

"Poison"? My great-grandmother always had an alcoholic beverage every Saturday for as long as I knew her, and the only reason she died at the young age of ninety-four is that the swelling in her feet kept her from getting the exercise she'd always been used to. She died with a dog-eared, normal print copy of a generally Christian inspirational book laying on the nightstand in her room at the rest home, and she packed up a medium-sized church a few days later. A gin and tonic on Saturday evenings is only going to make Saturday evenings more enjoyable. I don't see how it could possibly do anything else.

Update: I just got off the phone with my parents, and it turns out the old lady drank more than I do. In addition to using it to soak up sun on Saturdays, the only day of the week I'd see her drink before sundown, she'd have a vodka drink every night. Besides, studies have shown that limited consumption of alcohol is good for you. So hah!

[Scuba Pete]

New wine has "new" in front of it. Wine is Wine is Wine is Wine is Wine is Wine is Wine is Wine is Wine is Wine is Wine is Wine is Wine is Wine is Wine is Wine is Wine is Wine is Tapioca?

Originally Posted by The Truth...

The whole of Scripture is clearly and adamantly against the consumption of alcohol,

You have yet to bring forth ONE scripture that "adamantly" states this. I see this as just another attempt by extremists to draw a line in the sand that GOD NEVER DREW.

Colossians 2:16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. NIV

Colossians 2 was written for legalists... I'm glad God made sure that it was written.

[TheTruthWillSetUFree]

Leave alcoholic beverages alone (Proverbs 23:29-32).
If this extremely effective Bible solution were implemented, just think what it would mean:


Refusing to abstain from alcohol has brought untold woe to many. 1. Millions of alcoholics becoming sober, respectable citizens.
2. Millions of families reunited.
3. Millions of broken homes mended.
4. Multiplied thousands of lives saved by sober driving.
5. Thousands of government, business, and professional leaders making clear-minded decisions.
6. Billions of dollars available for humanitarian use.

Note: God not only tells us how to succeed with joy amid today's harrowing problems, but He also gives us the miraculous power to do it (1 Corinthians 15:57; Philippians 4:13; Romans 1:16). Bible health principles are relevant and desperately needed, but few are listening

[finalfrogo]

I prefer pure water-- the essence of all life, from which all life originates. What beats that?

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Druidus

I have two points, at least, to debate in this thread. First of all, do you drink alcoholic beverages? Why? What do you drink, brand wise and type wise? Why? What benefits are there to drinking? What negatives are there?

Nope. I happened to join a religion that doesn't allow it (unless your doctor says you have to, then you have to follow doctor's orders).

The benefits of not drinking is you never will become an alcoholic. Your children will be less likely to suffer from sensitivity/allergy to gluten. You will save money on DUI fines. Alcoholic drinks are expensive -- save the money and go on a cruise or something. When you're pregnant, you will not need to worry about doing any damage to your future child. Oh, I'm sure I'm forgetting something else somewhere.

Originally Posted by Druidus

Secondly why are certain alcohols considered more intellectual? Aren't all alcohols the same drug? Why is wine considered more intellectual than beer? Even hard alcohol drinks are considered more intellectual than beers, or, at least, that's the impression I get.

Some of that prejudice goes back to Roman times, when those "barbarians" were the people who drank beer, but well-heeled Romans drank wine. Modern prejudices seem to be related to the expense of the alcohol in question, which explains why beer is low on the alcoholic totem pole.

Originally Posted by Druidus

Personally, there are drugs much more enlightening than alcohol, with much less potential for abuse. I'll use it every now and then, but only a few glasses of wine or a few beer.

I've never been much attracted to any sort of mind-altering substances. First, I have other spending priorities. The few times I tried anything, I just got sleepy. I figured I could read Edith Wharton novels and get sleepy for free. aargh