Homosexuality and Religion (beliefs, hell, America, abomination, church)

[Green Gaia]

*Please note that this thread is the GENERAL DEBATES forum, not the Religious Debates forum.*
(meaning I don't want this to turn into a "my religion says homosexuality is right/wrong..." thread)

For those of us who don't have a problem with homosexuality and may even be homosexual, bisexual, straight-allied or transgendered ourselves, why do we let ourselves get drawn into religious debates on this issue with people not of our religion?

I'll admit, I've allowed it to happen many times; Arguing with people on their religious issues with homosexuality. Isn't it pointless and only leads to hurt feelings? Isn't their a better approach to the subject? I mean, why should I argue with a Christian or a Muslim about their beliefs on homosexuality when I am neither Christian or Muslim?

I'm not sure where I'm going with this other than to say that I'm done with arguing with people on their religious turf....

[Enigmata]

I would be lying if I said I wasn't trying to convince someone that homosexuality was not bad just because they think their religion says so. I do know that I always take some form of offense to someone who voices their opinion against homosexuals. To me it just feels like they are using their religion as a shield to justify their narrow mindedness.

I do apologize if anyone takes offense to my post here. All in all I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Sometimes I just get caught up in the harsh feelings.

[Atheist_Dave]

I have no idea why I am bothered by peoples homo-phobia, its just when its because of religious reasons I get really frustrated, turk hit the nail on the head, it seems they use religion to make themselves not appear narrow-minded.

Its hard not to get caught up in an argument when people are sayign the way you live your life is an "abomination" and you will burn in hell.

Peace x

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

The solution to the discrimination the LGBT community suffers lies not in religious tenet but in secular law and humanistic principle. Thus far there has not been a secular reason against LGBT freedoms that has not been soundly countered and defeated. Yet the problems persist. It would seem that this impetus to preserve LGBT suppression, based on secular reason, is a sham of taking points that amount to distortion and lies.

And with that observation, the argument that triumphs any religious opposition is patently embeded in the constitutional principle of church and state separation. For, as much as some dislike the idea, this country, America, is not a theocracy. It is a constitutionally protected democracy.

It is time that the American theory of rights and freedoms, is restored from malevolent theocratic privilege.

[standing_alone]

why do we let ourselves get drawn into religious debates on this issue with people not of our religion?

For me, I believe that I get into debates with people of religious faith to show that their faith has narrow and outdated views on the subject of homosexuality and that they are using their faith as a justification to discriminate against homosexuals and that we (homosexuals) are not the evil, sinful characters we are made out to be. I debate with them so that they understand that all I want as a homosexual American is the right to be able to get married and not be treated as a second-class citizen or that my relationships/love are inferior to heterosexual relationships/love. All I want them to understand is that they can hold their religious views on homosexuality, but they shouldn't use their religious views to discriminate against me and deny me civil rights. I'm no less of a human being than them. I hope this makes sense.

[Ardent Listener]

Originally Posted by Maize

*Please note that this thread is the GENERAL DEBATES forum, not the Religious Debates forum.*



(meaning I don't want this to turn into a "my religion says homosexuality is right/wrong..." thread)

I'll admit, I've allowed it to happen many times; Arguing with people on their religious issues with homosexuality. Isn't it pointless and only leads to hurt feelings? Isn't their a better approach to the subject? I mean, why should I argue with a Christian or a Muslim about their beliefs on homosexuality when I am neither Christian or Muslim?

It seems to me that it depends on what point you are trying to make in such debates. If you are trying to make the point that this is a free country where we all have the right to our own "pursuite of happiness" and "freedom of religion" or lack of one, then to me, logic says you are correct. However, if you are trying to make the point that other people are wrong because their religion believes that homosexuality is a "sin", then I would see it a "pointless" unless you are trying to convert them to yours.

I agree that some people use their religion just to cover their "homophobic" (can't think of a better word to use) view of homosexuality. But that is not true in many cases here at R.F. Many truly believe that they are trying to help you over-come a "sin" and that they would want someone to do the same for them if the situation was reversed. They also would like you to convert to their religion too. I just wish we had more discussions or debates about the "sins" that include hetorsexual people such as adultery.

But when it gets a little dull here at R.F., a homosexual debate sure gets things moving.

[Flappycat]

We're everyone's favorite political cannon fodder.

[Revasser]

Well, I try not to get drawn into a religious debate about it and prefer to focus on the secular issues. I don't care what someone believes, if they want to call me an abomination because of their religious beliefs, they can go ahead and do so, as long as they don't try to impose 'abomination' or second-class citizen status on me in a secular arena (like government and law) because of it.

Unfortunately, I do sometimes get drawn into debates over it on 'their turf' so to speak and try to point out the ambiguity of the original text of the passage(s) in question (before it was translated), but usually to no avail. I don't know why I bother, I should know better and I really don't care what their religion tells them to believe about it. But it's a very emotional issue for me, as I am a homosexual and it's hard to stay focused sometimes.

I think the main problem is that so often these people are trying to have their religious beliefs enshrined in secular law, and I suppose I sometimes feel like I need to 'fight them all the way back to their castle', as it were, and try to take out the source of their prejudice rather than just the potential results of it. Stupid of me, I know, but it's hard to resist that instinct.

Really, though, you are correct, Maize. I am neither Christian nor Muslim, so I shouldn't bother debating the point with them on those terms. Focusing on the secular arguments (because it is and should be a secular issue first and foremost) is much better, because, there, they don't have a leg to stand on.

[Mike182]

Originally Posted by Maize

For those of us who don't have a problem with homosexuality and may even be homosexual, bisexual, straight-allied or transgendered ourselves, why do we let ourselves get drawn into religious debates on this issue with people not of our religion?

I'll admit, I've allowed it to happen many times; Arguing with people on their religious issues with homosexuality. Isn't it pointless and only leads to hurt feelings? Isn't their a better approach to the subject? I mean, why should I argue with a Christian or a Muslim about their beliefs on homosexuality when I am neither Christian or Muslim?

I'm not sure where I'm going with this other than to say that I'm done with arguing with people on their religious turf....

i hear what your saying, and although im not keen on admitting it, i guess you are right in that it is pretty pointless trying to debate with someone who is set in their ways....

and.......i do often walk away from such debates trying not to show how much it has actually upset me.... its just so hard sometimes to ignore a person declaring that we are dirty sinners who should repent, with the big "or else...." threat