Do animals have emotions? (religions, science, Articles)

Jaymes · #1 01-11-2006, 09:06 PM

"Humor: Of all the creatures on the planet, humans are the only ones capable of laughter."

That I disagree with. I know dogs and parrots laugh, and have a strong feeling we just haven't caught on to other animals' laughter.

flupke · #2 01-12-2006, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jensa

"Humor: Of all the creatures on the planet, humans are the only ones capable of laughter."

That I disagree with. I know dogs and parrots laugh, and have a strong feeling we just haven't caught on to other animals' laughter.

And I disagree with you. Dogs and parrots may make a 'laughing' noise, but that doesn't mean they have a sense of humor. That's your interpretation of the noise/facial expression, not a tested trait.

(one test would be to do a fMRI experiment on a laughing dog and see if similar regions in the brain light up as for laughing humans)

WeAreAllOne · #3 01-12-2006, 08:47 AM

Quote:

And I disagree with you. Dogs and parrots may make a 'laughing' noise, but that doesn't mean they have a sense of humor. That's your interpretation of the noise/facial expression, not a tested trait.

I don’t know about dogs but you obviously haven’t been around parrots very long. They can feel every emotion you can. The ones the can’t verbalize (even though most of them they can) show up in their body language and facial expressions.

An adult African gray for example at about 10 years old has a comparable intelligence to a 3-5 year old child.

Jaymes · #4 01-12-2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flupke

And I disagree with you. Dogs and parrots may make a 'laughing' noise, but that doesn't mean they have a sense of humor. That's your interpretation of the noise/facial expression, not a tested trait.

(one test would be to do a fMRI experiment on a laughing dog and see if similar regions in the brain light up as for laughing humans)

Actually, recent studies indicate that dogs probably do laugh. Not just the 'smile' they have on their face, but the panting noise they make when playing in a nonagressive manner with other dogs.

Parrots mimic laughter, yes. But nothing you can tell me will ever convince me parrots don't have a sense of humor. I've been around parrots too long to doubt that they delight in some of the tricks they pull.

flupke · #5 01-12-2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeAreAllOne

I don’t know about dogs but you obviously haven’t been around parrots very long. They can feel every emotion you can. The ones the can’t verbalize (even though most of them they can) show up in their body language and facial expressions.

An adult African gray for example at about 10 years old has a comparable intelligence to a 3-5 year old child.

You are confusing 'feeling' with 'sensing'.

Bacteria can 'sense' the presence of nutrients, though they don't consciously 'feel' it. The cells in my skin kan 'sense' the presence of other skin cells through chemical communication.
You can 'sense' the presence of a hamburger through chemicals reaching the receptors in your nose, and through a complex neural network you can actually 'feel' like eating.

The same goes with the parrot: at most, it may be able to 'detect' your allomones, but the fact that it actually consciously 'feels' your emotions is unproven.

Also, intelligence doesn't say anything about emotions. An intelligent supercomputer does not consciously feel anything (we know so for sure, since they are missing the proper feedback loops). Probably, one day they will gain consiousness.

Jaymes · #6 01-12-2006, 08:05 PM

A computer is not intelligent. Computers can do only what we program them to do. A computer cannot sit down and go "I want to do something different today." A parrot or dog, however, can.

flupke · #7 01-12-2006, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jensa

A computer is not intelligent. Computers can do only what we program them to do. A computer cannot sit down and go "I want to do something different today." A parrot or dog, however, can.

You obviously fail to see what artificial intelligence designers are trying to do, and you fail to see our current standing on the computational theory of the mind.

I admit that, for religious people, stating that computers can have a consciousness, is shocking. After all, it goes directly against their religions...

I ask you: PROVE that a parrot or dog has a consciousness. You cannot. You are only assuming. Looks can be deceiving.

WeAreAllOne · #8 01-12-2006, 08:19 PM

Quote:

The same goes with the parrot: at most, it may be able to 'detect' your allomones, but the fact that it actually consciously 'feels' your emotions is unproven.

Have you ever read anything on the Alex studies? It is an ongoing project by Dr. Irene Pepperburg, I suggest you check it out.

Parrots are more than capable of feeling emotions, any animal can feel fear, is that not an emotion? Another common misconception about parrots is that they can only mimic words, but in truth some can and do, combine words they’ve learned to make new sentences. One of my favorite examples of this is a Gray that saw it was snowing outside and asked his owner with a tilted head (wich generally implies interest or questioning), and said “popcorn?” with no prior coaching. Ok so that isn’t exactly the best example of the above. But I think you understand what I’m getting at.

Jaymes · #9 01-12-2006, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flupke

You obviously fail to see what artificial intelligence designers are trying to do, and you fail to see our current standing on the computational theory of the mind.

If there's something in the field of artificial intelligence I've missed--like the ability to get a computer to figure out what to do when it encounters something that it's not programmed to react to--please enlighten me. Computers as we know them, however, are not intelligent. In fact, after wrestling with code I'm pretty sure they're annoyingly daft.

Quote:

I admit that, for religious people, stating that computers can have a consciousness, is shocking. After all, it goes directly against their religions...

While I'm not really religious, it doesn't shock me at all. Mostly because I've not read any evidence to suggest it's true.

Quote:

I ask you: PROVE that a parrot or dog has a consciousness. You cannot. You are only assuming. Looks can be deceiving.

If you define consciousness as 'awareness of oneself and surroundings', then dogs and parents are definately conscious. They don't see another dog or cat or snake and go 'wow, my tail looks so weird today!'

I'm going to guess you've never had fuzzy/feathered pets?

Jaymes · #10 01-12-2006, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeAreAllOne

Another common misconception about parrots is that they can only mimic words, but in truth some can and do, combine words they’ve learned to make new sentences.

Indeed! One of my favorite stories about Alex involve Dr. Pepperburg trying to teach Alex to spell. They'd gotten to N in the alphabet, and were trying to get him to spell a word, and he was being grumpy and insisted on having a nut. After they persisted for a few minutes, Alex got slitty-eyed, and said "Nut. N-uh-tuh. Nut!"

He's also invented words. When he knew 'banana' and 'cherry,' but not 'apple,' he began to ask for apples by saying 'banerry.'