Heroes.......or not ? (tradition, blood, mission, Greek, Roman)

[michel]

Are heroes 'heroic' ? That might sound absurd, but I once did something I was told was heroic (I wasn't going to lose my life or anything so noble, but I did put myself in danger). As far as I was concerned, my act was one made without any thought.

I remember Dad telling me how he had see heroes in WWII who acted out of total fear - they carried out irational absurd acts that made then heroes.

Are there 'real' heroes ? (ie people who calmly take a dreadful risk, knowing that it could lead to their death) What do you think ? - any examples ?

[The Black Whirlwind]

King Leonidas of Sparta, who led a force of 300 spartans, and about 4000 other greeks, at the pass of thermopylae, killing 20,000 persians. Later, traitors from other grecian cities told the persians of a path behind the mountains, and when King Leonidas heard of this, he sent away the remaining 1,000 greeks of the other cities, and sacrificed himself and the 100 spartans left to save Greece. Subsequently, he also saved the entire western world from destruction and enslavement by Persia, as well as at the Battle of Salamis, where athenian warships decimated the filthy persians fleet. This is also considered one of the battles that saved the western world. the oracle at delphi had earlier said to the athenians, "the wooden wall alone will save you", which was thought to be the wall surrounding the upper levels around the parthenon. it actually meant the walls of ships. This was, of course, over 2400 years ago. I dont think there are many heroes left today.

[Fire Empire]

Yes, there are real heroes. Occasionally they find newsprint. Not too sure about "calmly" doing the right thing, but here are a few stories:

Woman bites attacker's penis
Nathi Olifant

Newcastle - A 30-year-old accused of attempted rapist is languishing in police custody after he failed to raise the R500 bail that a Newcastle magistrate granted him on Monday.

Mfanafuthi John Nkosi's woes started last Friday when he attempted to rape a 37-year-old woman, who wrestled him before biting his penis and managing to flee.

Superintendent Buhle Ngidi told The Witness that the woman was walking at the corner of Dolomite and Mica streets in Sunnyridge, Newcastle, on Friday afternoon when Nkosi allegedly attacked her.

He said the woman was forced to undress, but she fought back, biting her attacker's penis.

Ngidi said the woman screamed and her husband, who was nearby, heard her and rushed to help, only to find a drunken Nkosi still trying to dress himself.

"He was drunk and could not escape and the victim's husband managed to apprehend him and called the police who arrested him on the spot," said Ngidi, who has lauded the courage of the woman.

Ngidi said Nkosi is being treated for a seven-centimetre laceration on his penis.

Ngidi said although fighting back during such attacks cannot always be encouraged unless it is safe to do so, the message has been relayed that women are fed up of dominant men, especially rapists.

"However, all credit for this brave woman. Nkosi will appear again in the Newcastle magistrate's court on July 27," said Ngidi.

and............

Destin, Fla.
Shark attack:Florida beachgoers were in a panic this week after two teenagers were mauled by sharks in separate attacks in the Gulf of Mexico. Jamie Marie Daigle, a 14-year-old tourist from Louisiana, was paddling on a boogie board 100 yards from shore when a 6-foot bull shark attacked, tearing off her left thigh. A surfer, Tim Dicus, pulled the unconscious girl onto his board as the shark circled back. Dicus then fought off the shark by punching its nose. “The shark kept coming back around,” Dicus said. “I’ve never been so scared in my life. It was like the movie Jaws except I was in it.” Daigle later died from blood loss. Two days later, a teenage boy fishing in knee-deep water off another beach on the Gulf was attacked by a shark. His right leg was so badly mauled doctors had to amputate it.

(from “The Week”)

[turk179]

I once ran into a burning building to save an old womans dog and cat. Although I was very far from being calm she called me a hero none the less. I heard someones definition of hero once(it could have been from a movie, But I'm not sure.) To be a hero is not do do something dangerous without fear, it is to have fear but to do the dangerous task anyways.
Never considered myself a hero in the above situation though. Never really thought about it until I was already doing it.

[Fluffy]

The Ancient and Classical Greeks thought that a hero had to be two things: good at battle and good at speech. The degree to which each of these were thought to be necessary varies. For example Odysseus is much more similar to a modern hero, refraining from fighting whilst manipulating his enemies through rhetoric. Achilles on the other hand certainly had more of the former than the latter.

Traditionally, a hero had to be a man, however, although it is uncertain whether Greek's would have considered this themselves, women like Medea, Penelope and Nausicaa all could be described as heroines in their own right. It is important to note that the Greek concept of hero had nothing to do with doing the right thing. Medea and Achilles both do some very evil things for example and the Greek's viewed their enemies as being heroic as well eg. Hector.

[michel]

Originally Posted by turk179

I once ran into a burning building to save an old womans dog and cat. Although I was very far from being calm she called me a hero none the less. I heard someones definition of hero once(it could have been from a movie, But I'm not sure.) To be a hero is not do do something dangerous without fear, it is to have fear but to do the dangerous task anyways.
Never considered myself a hero in the above situation though. Never really thought about it until I was already doing it.

That is the sort of situation I was talking about. My 'incident' was a rather pathetic example - I was in a room with ten others (actually during a session of 'group therapy' - for mental and psychological problems). One guy seemed to 'have it in' for another and they were big; suddenly, one day, one lashed out at the other - and a fight started. The therapist screamed "get out of here" to the rest of us - and they left pretty smartly!

To my surprize, I thought (being the usual sort of twit that I am) "If I get between them, and they realize they are both thumping me, they will stop, so I just ran in between them and stood there.

It didn't do any good at all; luckilly a couple of hefty male nurses came into the room, and subdued the guys. Somehow, that event made me feel good though - I thought afterwards "Ooh, I am not a coward after all!" - having always thought that I was.

[Feathers in Hair]

A peace-maker? Sounds like my kind of hero!

[Halcyon]

I'd say that was a heroic thing to do Mich. To me a hero is someone who helps another (or tries to) without any consideration for their own safety.

It really annoys me when sports professionals are lauded as heroes (case in point our recent Ashes win), they aren't heroes, how can you be a hero for playing a game? Role model, maybe, but heroic - definately not. Sorry to go off the point, but when i see 'football hero', or 'cricket hero' - i just feel like screaming.

Fire fighters, police, rescue workers (e.g. coast guard) are heroes, they save people's lives.

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

Originally Posted by michel

Are heroes 'heroic' ?

Are there 'real' heroes ? (ie people who calmly take a dreadful risk, knowing that it could lead to their death) What do you think ? - any examples ?

My grandfather, who was one of the wisest men never to have graduated from high school (IMHO) used to discuss this subject with me as a youngster. I was always going on about brave heroic types, John Wayne, Clint Eastwood and such, Western Heroes. He told me something I will never forget one day.

I told him I wanted to grow up, and be big, strong and tough so I would never be afraid of anyone or anything. He looked me straight in the eye and said:

"Boog (nickname) don't you ever believe that the Hero isn't scared. The Hero is just as scared as the coward. What makes him different is the Hero does what has to be done in spite of his fear."

In Gramps' opinion doing a so called heroic act when you personally felt no fear was not heroic at all. What he considered heroic was a person in great danger, rationally fearful of the situation, but willing to risk personal harm to carry out the mission. In that respect, I would say that hero's abound even today.

B.