Faith in Religious Objects (ritual, beliefs, creation, hell, experience)

[Ishkbal]

Hello,

I have a friend in Bermuda who is having diffiulty with a poltergeist in his girlfriend's house. He is a Buddhist and she doesn't have a religion. He tried placing twin Foo Dogs in her room to ward off the spirit but it did not have any effect. In fact, the poltergeist activity got worse. Now, he didn't understand why it did not work and I tried explaining it to him. His girlfriend does not have any faith in the religious symbols as she is not a Buddhist, therefore, the Foo Dog statues do not have any effect on protecting her from malevolent spirits.

I feel that if my friend were in her situation and he had put up the Foo Dogs it would have worked for him because he has faith that it will work. Do you get my drift? Anyway, I'm just wondering what others think about that. Will religious symbols work only if there is the belief that they will work?

Cheers,

Ishkbal

[Fluffy]

I feel that if my friend were in her situation and he had put up the Foo Dogs it would have worked for him because he has faith that it will work. Do you get my drift? Anyway, I'm just wondering what others think about that. Will religious symbols work only if there is the belief that they will work?

Religious symbols, like any symbol really, are merely there to represent something else. They often incorporate the most important beliefs of a religion. This is their purpose and, as far as I know, they manage this without the need of faith.

Now as far as ritual is concerned, religious symbols can be used as a physical manifestation of the beliefs they represent so that they can interact with other components in the ritual. It is important in a ritual to keep your mind on what you wish to accomplish and faith is a good way of doing this but it is in no means necessary. Additionally, faith can have an important effect when the ritual involves yourself and your mind because it can cause the ritual to act like a placebo in addition to any effects the ritual has.

Your friend had faith in the ritual and he was the one conducting it. To say that his girlfriend's lack of faith disrupted it would be similar to me being unable to conduct magick in the same room as an unbeliever. There must be something other than a lack of faith which is preventing it from working.

[Tawn]

Originally Posted by Ishkbal

His girlfriend does not have any faith in the religious symbols as she is not a Buddhist, therefore, the Foo Dog statues do not have any effect on protecting her from malevolent spirits.

If I may offer a Secular opinion...
The reason the objects didnt work - is as you say, because the symbols have no meaning to her. It is also worth remembering that the spirits themselves are an imagined creation (most likely! ). A result of suggestibility.. and yes such things can be shared.
Ever notice how you find yourself looking over your shoulder when you have heard a ghost story?

The best way of approaching the issue, if she is non-religious, is to make her realise the ghosts are a figment of her own suggestion. Get her to question if the ghost really exists.. only skepticism will help her get over it. Of course if she is religious then perhaps use a similar object from her faith. If Christian - perform an exorcism. Etc... use her beliefs to shake off her beliefs

Of course you probably disagree with my opinion..

[Ishkbal]

In reply,

Fluffy: So, you are saying that the power of the symbol is there even if the fiath is not? That's very interesting. Thank you. And I agree with you, there is more going than just the fact that she doesn't believe in the power Foo Dogs have. There is also the problem that her parents are extremely bigoted towards Blacks and Jews which is how we think the whole problem with the poltergeist started.

Tawn: As for the poltergeist being imaginary, it is always possible. However, in this case there has been several physical effects of the presence of the ghost (bed shaking for no reason, cold spots) and these have been noticed by more than one individual. However, you bring up a good point. Although the power behind objects could be only suggestive, there is still the belief that there is. It's like believing in a God or different gods, while one might not be true it is still nice to have them.

Cheers,

Ishkbal

[michel]

Has the poltergeist made itself apparent in the girfriend's house before she went to live there ? - has she any children ? The reason I ask is from what you have said, it sounds more like a 'haunting' than a 'poltergeist'

[Fluffy]

In reply,

Fluffy: So, you are saying that the power of the symbol is there even if the fiath is not? That's very interesting. Thank you. And I agree with you, there is more going than just the fact that she doesn't believe in the power Foo Dogs have. There is also the problem that her parents are extremely bigoted towards Blacks and Jews which is how we think the whole problem with the poltergeist started.

mmm not quite. I'm more suggesting that there is no power in the symbols till we put it there. I just don't think the source of that power comes from our faith either but from clarity of what the person is trying to do and willpower. Faith can achieve those things but often it confuses things to no end as well.

[Ishkbal]

Ah, I see now, thanks Fluffy.

Michel: well, it would seem that it could be a haunting, I usually associate the one with the other. She doesn't have any children, as she is only 17, and the problem only started recently and they have lived there for years. At first it was nothing big, just the feel of the presence and the sense that she was being watched. So, she had some others come in to see if they felt the same, and they experienced the same stuff. Then it started to get worse. There started to be rampings on the walls and cold spots; and the negative precense spread from her room to her sister's room to the basement. Curiously enough, the parent's bedroom is sort of a haven. Poeple go in there and they feel protected.

Cheers,

Ishkbal

[Riven]

Well, your beliefs manifest your reality, so, yes, belief that the object will work is necessary. But, on the flip side of the "belief-manifesting-reality" coin, she should be able to hang up a dirty sock in her room, believe it will solve the problem, and it should work.

[Ishkbal]

Lol. Man, have I ever come across alot of people who believe some far out things. Now, there is a difference between having the power to change something and believing something will happen foolishly.

Cheers,

Keenan

[Fluffy]

Lol. Man, have I ever come across alot of people who believe some far out things. Now, there is a difference between having the power to change something and believing something will happen foolishly.

Cheers,

Keenan

Lol actually I got to with Riven on this one Keenan. The elements of a ritual are just their to help you focus your power. Most people find the easiest way to do this to use an item which is significant to them and the ritual but if you can find relevance in a dirty sock then all the more power to you.