Why are people scared to talk about racism?

[Mr. Skittles]

In another forum someone made a thread about racism and what-do-ya-know, someone made a comment in a way which they wanted to steer discussion from racissm. At work, me and some of my Latino associates discuss racism from time to time. In some cases, we make comical remarks on stereotypes but of course we border being offensive to each others cultures. However, and this is my humble opinion as a minority in the United States, I notice most Caucasians or those of European descent are uncomfortable talking about it.

Now, I've asked some of my "white friends" why is there a discomfort talking about racism. Its no surprise that people of European descent have displaced people of color causing a loss of language and history. I was told recently by a co-worker that "racism is the past." Funny, I love bringing up birthers who, have made an attempt to make our president an "other," rather than an American which nobody else has done to past presidents.

I think theoretically there is a tuype of guilt, mixed with annoyance but I want to give my caucasian friends the floor as to why on online boards and offline why racism isn't talked about since its still prevalent today?

[Quagmire]

What is there to say about it?

Considering that people don't generally talk about their own bigotry, but most are more than eager to point out the other guy's, there doesn't generally seem to be much chance for a healthy or productive conversation there.

[Mr. Skittles]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

What is there to say about it?

Considering that people don't generally talk about their own bigotry, but most are more than eager to point out the other guy's, there doesn't generally seem to be much chance for a healthy or productive conversation there.

There is a lot to say about it.

Speaking of bigotry. How about racial profiling, birthers, racial inequality, economical gaps due to race, etcetera. I disagree with your assertion of productive discussion in which my caucasian friends also allude in their views in that race ought to not be discussed. I believe racism should be discussed because we live in a world where humans are still color conscious. I mean, a good example are protest in the Netherlands and in other areas of Europe where they see an influx of middle eastern and east african immigrants and the discussions of "acclimating to european culture" are discussed.

We still live in a world where people out of political spite, have the audacity to question the president of the U.S whether he is arab or black, muslim, or christian I find discussing racism very relavant.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Mr. Skittles

There is a lot to say about it.

Speaking of bigotry. How about racial profiling, birthers, racial inequality, economical gaps due to race, etcetera. I disagree with your assertion of productive discussion in which my caucasian friends also allude in their views in that race ought to not be discussed. I believe racism should be discussed because we live in a world where humans are still color conscious. I mean, a good example are protest in the Netherlands and in other areas of Europe where they see an influx of middle eastern and east african immigrants and the discussions of "acclimating to european culture" are discussed.

We still live in a world where people out of political spite, have the audacity to question the president of the U.S whether he is arab or black, muslim, or christian I find discussing racism very relavant.

It isn't a matter of whether or not it should be discussed, it's this "there doesn't generally seem to be much chance for a healthy or productive conversation there."

Yes, there is a lot to say about it, that isn't the problem. The problem that I see
is the futility of expecting anyone to listen or discuss it reasonably. What I mean is that trying to get a bigot to admit or even consider that his racism actually is racism/bigotry is usually pointless (especially if it's benefiting them in some way).

The victims themselves aren't usually capable of discussing it objectively either.

The problem I've run into in real life is that if I'm discussing racial issues with someone who's a member of the demographic involved, I can agree with them on 99 out of 100 points, but that one point of disagreement is usually all it takes for them to brand me as a bigot.

Exp: in college I was in a debate with another student about whether or not the there was some sort of collectively inherited guilt that applied to all "white" people on account of our country having practiced slavery for as long as it did.

My opening points were that most Euro-Americans at this point are descended from immigrants that weren't even here when slavery was still being practiced, that out of those whose ancestors were here a very small percentage are descended from slave owners, and the kicker (and the one that really got me dirty looks) was that out of all the modern American demographics the people most likely to have at least a few plantation owners somewhere in their family tree are the African Americans themselves. Just a fact.

Now, my closing remarks were that, since the African American slaves and their descendants helped build this country, and played a huge part in making it a place that people would want to immigrate to in the first place, ie., that since this country was founded on and owed it's success to a system that included slavery, it would be reasonable to say that I, as a descendant of post-slavery European immigrants, owed them a dept

But I didn't owe them my guilt.

IMO, when my ancestors immigrated to the US, as citizens of the US they inherited the debt, but that isn't the same thing as saying they have a share in the guilt.

My opponents closing remarks were that I was a !@#$%!@$ bigot.

Based solely on the reactions of most of the other students, you would have to say he won the debate, even though he never managed to refute a single one of my points.

[MysticSang'ha]

Originally Posted by Mr. Skittles

In another forum someone made a thread about racism and what-do-ya-know, someone made a comment in a way which they wanted to steer discussion from racissm. At work, me and some of my Latino associates discuss racism from time to time. In some cases, we make comical remarks on stereotypes but of course we border being offensive to each others cultures. However, and this is my humble opinion as a minority in the United States, I notice most Caucasians or those of European descent are uncomfortable talking about it.

Now, I've asked some of my "white friends" why is there a discomfort talking about racism. Its no surprise that people of European descent have displaced people of color causing a loss of language and history. I was told recently by a co-worker that "racism is the past." Funny, I love bringing up birthers who, have made an attempt to make our president an "other," rather than an American which nobody else has done to past presidents.

I think theoretically there is a tuype of guilt, mixed with annoyance but I want to give my caucasian friends the floor as to why on online boards and offline why racism isn't talked about since its still prevalent today?

It's definitely relevent today. It's vital that racism is still discussed and how it still pervades our culture.

People may not think it's a big deal, but I think it's sad when a woman trying to find a "nude" pair of pantyhose is always "nude" to lighter-skinned legs. White is still the "default" color in many areas of society.

My family lives in a neighborhood that is multi-racial, which is rather odd in our part of the country. Around St. Louis, many neighborhoods are highly segregated, not by force but by choice. What upsets me about what friends/acquaintances/family say about our neighborhood is that it is "full of crime", even though the last crime reported in our area was nearly 6 years ago. And that was when an ice storm took out all the power in the neighborhood and somebody went on a burglar spree and hit many of the houses - including ours.

When I ask why they think our neighborhood is bad, all they can say is, "Well, LOOK AROUND."

That ****es me off.

My daughter and I take daily walks to the park down the street. I'd say that the ratio of whites and blacks that enjoy the park is nearly 50/50, but again, some people would say that they wouldn't set foot in the park now because it's "gone downhill."

Again, that ****es me off.

The reason why I think people are hesitant to discuss racism is because it forces people to look at their own cultural privilege, and realize that they are not treated like others with darker skin tones by authority figures. They don't like questions such as "have you ever been coached on how not to look suspicious in a department store?" or "How often have you been followed by a policeman?" because realizing that darker-skinned men and women answer these questions very very easily, and lighter-skinned men and women don't understand the reality of these situations because they don't live them every day.

IMO we still have a ways to go.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Mr. Skittles

In another forum someone made a thread about racism and what-do-ya-know, someone made a comment in a way which they wanted to steer discussion from racissm. At work, me and some of my Latino associates discuss racism from time to time. In some cases, we make comical remarks on stereotypes but of course we border being offensive to each others cultures. However, and this is my humble opinion as a minority in the United States, I notice most Caucasians or those of European descent are uncomfortable talking about it.

In a nut shell, I think in most instances where racism is the topic Caucasians are expected to be on the defensive. Now, you weren't very specific in your OP about any actual instances or incidents of racism being discussed, sounded more like you were just talking about race/racism as a whole, or as something general brought up casually in a conversation (or even joked about) without any specific purpose in mind.

I understand why Caucasians might tend to shy away from those conversations. I think the idea that "If you're white, you're guilty" is fairly prevalent in our society, and in a casual, general conversation about race/racism I think a white person is expected to watch what they say, watch how they react, ect, more-so than someone who isn't.

I think in a lot of scenarios a racist joke delivered by a Caucasian is going to be received differently than it would be if it came from anyone else.

Originally Posted by Mr. Skittles

Now, I've asked some of my "white friends" why is there a discomfort talking about racism. Its no surprise that people of European descent have displaced people of color causing a loss of language and history. I was told recently by a co-worker that "racism is the past." Funny, I love bringing up birthers who, have made an attempt to make our president an "other," rather than an American which nobody else has done to past presidents.

I think theoretically there is a tuype of guilt,

I think that guilt is expected in a lot of cases.

Originally Posted by Mr. Skittles

mixed with annoyance but I want to give my caucasian friends the floor as to why on online boards and offline why racism isn't talked about since its still prevalent today?

If you look around and check out some of our older threads, especially in the Political Debates section, you'll see that's it actually is being talked about (and debated about and argued about. . .).

[Mr. Skittles]

Originally Posted by MysticSang'ha

It's definitely relevent today. It's vital that racism is still discussed and how it still pervades our culture.

People may not think it's a big deal, but I think it's sad when a woman trying to find a "nude" pair of pantyhose is always "nude" to lighter-skinned legs. White is still the "default" color in many areas of society.

My family lives in a neighborhood that is multi-racial, which is rather odd in our part of the country. Around St. Louis, many neighborhoods are highly segregated, not by force but by choice. What upsets me about what friends/acquaintances/family say about our neighborhood is that it is "full of crime", even though the last crime reported in our area was nearly 6 years ago. And that was when an ice storm took out all the power in the neighborhood and somebody went on a burglar spree and hit many of the houses - including ours.

When I ask why they think our neighborhood is bad, all they can say is, "Well, LOOK AROUND."

That ****es me off.

My daughter and I take daily walks to the park down the street. I'd say that the ratio of whites and blacks that enjoy the park is nearly 50/50, but again, some people would say that they wouldn't set foot in the park now because it's "gone downhill."

Again, that ****es me off.

The reason why I think people are hesitant to discuss racism is because it forces people to look at their own cultural privilege, and realize that they are not treated like others with darker skin tones by authority figures. They don't like questions such as "have you ever been coached on how not to look suspicious in a department store?" or "How often have you been followed by a policeman?" because realizing that darker-skinned men and women answer these questions very very easily, and lighter-skinned men and women don't understand the reality of these situations because they don't live them every day.

IMO we still have a ways to go.

What-do-ya-know me and Ms Mystic agree on something! Gonna give you some frubals for your post. I agree with you 100% With respect to your comment on the pantyhose that is a new one to me. Do others you know share your view on this? I do agree with you we as a collect human community have a ways to go.

[Mr. Skittles]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

It isn't a matter of whether or not it should be discussed, it's this "there doesn't generally seem to be much chance for a healthy or productive conversation there."

Yes, there is a lot to say about it, that isn't the problem. The problem that I see
is the futility of expecting anyone to listen or discuss it reasonably. What I mean is that trying to get a bigot to admit or even consider that his racism actually is racism/bigotry is usually pointless (especially if it's benefiting them in some way).

The victims themselves aren't usually capable of discussing it objectively either.

The problem I've run into in real life is that if I'm discussing racial issues with someone who's a member of the demographic involved, I can agree with them on 99 out of 100 points, but that one point of disagreement is usually all it takes for them to brand me as a bigot.

Exp: in college I was in a debate with another student about whether or not the there was some sort of collectively inherited guilt that applied to all "white" people on account of our country having practiced slavery for as long as it did.

My opening points were that most Euro-Americans at this point are descended from immigrants that weren't even here when slavery was still being practiced, that out of those whose ancestors were here a very small percentage are descended from slave owners, and the kicker (and the one that really got me dirty looks) was that out of all the modern American demographics the people most likely to have at least a few plantation owners somewhere in their family tree are the African Americans themselves. Just a fact.

Now, my closing remarks were that, since the African American slaves and their descendants helped build this country, and played a huge part in making it a place that people would want to immigrate to in the first place, ie., that since this country was founded on and owed it's success to a system that included slavery, it would be reasonable to say that I, as a descendant of post-slavery European immigrants, owed them a dept

But I didn't owe them my guilt.

IMO, when my ancestors immigrated to the US, as citizens of the US they inherited the debt, but that isn't the same thing as saying they have a share in the guilt.

My opponents closing remarks were that I was a !@#$%!@$ bigot.

Based solely on the reactions of most of the other students, you would have to say he won the debate, even though he never managed to refute a single one of my points.

Quagmire in a nutshell you have a point but let us discuss the 1% you disagree with on those of the minority demographic!

[Me Myself]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

It isn't a matter of whether or not it should be discussed, it's this "there doesn't generally seem to be much chance for a healthy or productive conversation there."

Yes, there is a lot to say about it, that isn't the problem. The problem that I see
is the futility of expecting anyone to listen or discuss it reasonably. What I mean is that trying to get a bigot to admit or even consider that his racism actually is racism/bigotry is usually pointless (especially if it's benefiting them in some way).

The victims themselves aren't usually capable of discussing it objectively either.

The problem I've run into in real life is that if I'm discussing racial issues with someone who's a member of the demographic involved, I can agree with them on 99 out of 100 points, but that one point of disagreement is usually all it takes for them to brand me as a bigot.

Exp: in college I was in a debate with another student about whether or not the there was some sort of collectively inherited guilt that applied to all "white" people on account of our country having practiced slavery for as long as it did.

My opening points were that most Euro-Americans at this point are descended from immigrants that weren't even here when slavery was still being practiced, that out of those whose ancestors were here a very small percentage are descended from slave owners, and the kicker (and the one that really got me dirty looks) was that out of all the modern American demographics the people most likely to have at least a few plantation owners somewhere in their family tree are the African Americans themselves. Just a fact.

Now, my closing remarks were that, since the African American slaves and their descendants helped build this country, and played a huge part in making it a place that people would want to immigrate to in the first place, ie., that since this country was founded on and owed it's success to a system that included slavery, it would be reasonable to say that I, as a descendant of post-slavery European immigrants, owed them a dept

But I didn't owe them my guilt.

IMO, when my ancestors immigrated to the US, as citizens of the US they inherited the debt, but that isn't the same thing as saying they have a share in the guilt.

My opponents closing remarks were that I was a !@#$%!@$ bigot.

Based solely on the reactions of most of the other students, you would have to say he won the debate, even though he never managed to refute a single one of my points.

I sympathize with this, but with me it tends to be sexism instead of race.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Mr. Skittles

Quagmire in a nutshell you have a point but let us discuss the 1% you disagree with on those of the minority demographic!

It's the whole "white men can't jump" thing.

Originally Posted by Me Myself

I sympathize with this, but with me it tends to be sexism instead of race.

<---This is all the comment I'm brave enough to make on this.
(Especially with MysticSang'ha watching )