Why are people scared to talk about racism?

[Mr. Skittles]

Originally Posted by Father Heathen

What an unnecessary redundancy. Racism is racism.

I didnt make up the term. I agree racism is racism

[Revoltingest]

Originally Posted by Mr. Skittles

Sorry but this is a silly attempt to absolve someone who is inherently against other humans of darker skin pigmentation. No wonder humanity has not evolved. First sentence was apolegetic to an admission to inherent racism and your words were "nobody is perfect." LOL

Silly? Absolve? Sigh....you read something other than I intended.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Mr. Skittles

Ok this is one of those discussions where I have to spell it out

No, this is one of those discussions where you should read and respond to what people actually say, rather than trying to twist what they say into what you were hoping they'd say so you could claim the moral high ground and object to it.

Exp: someone says this:

Originally Posted by idav

I'm rather color blind when it comes to race. I can't really tell what race people are so I just don't try to assume. Most people these days are some sort of mix of all sorts of countries and cultures. Besides the fact that people are just humans with various genetics for skin and eye color, there isn't really much to talk about regarding race since it is a judge the book by the cover sort of thing. Nothing about "race" makes anyone any different and everything else is just stereotyping.

And you respond with something that amounts to: "Bull! That's just a lot of politically correct BS. Just admit your a racist so I can get back to lecturing everybody".

Someone says:

Originally Posted by Revoltingest

Ain't nobody perfect. Everyone suffers from some bigotry, especially those who think they don't.
If you don't let such innate prejudices rule your relationships, then what more can anyone ask?
Even I am imperfect. Yes, tis true. All sorts of evil thoughts come unbidden into our brains,
but shame is something to feel when you act out those thoughts when you believe you shouldn't.

Acknowledging that bigotry is an unfortunate fact of the human condition, which is an honest evaluation of people in general, IMO, and you turn it into "Justifying racism".

Someone says:

Originally Posted by Wirey

I don't talk about it because I'm pretty sure I am racist. I don't want to be, but I can't help it. The weird part is, most of my friends growing up were black (they were actually various shades of brown), and my family has several natives married in. But when I see a drunk Indian in Fort Mac or a group of black teenagers in Edmonton, I'm instantly on my guard. I shame myself, so I keep it to myself.

Which IMO is a pretty commendable example of someone admitting to something that they're ashamed of, and I'm guessing something that most people would have to admit if they could work up the courage to, and your response is basically "RACIST!!!"

Truth be told there's no doubt in my mind that this person isn't NEARLY as bigoted as you are. Other than that the only difference between you two is that he's confessing his prejudice in this thread, and you're wallowing in yours.

Originally Posted by Mr. Skittles

Ok (Forgive me I am going by memory and too lazy to go back and quote)

Don't worry, I did it for you.

Originally Posted by Mr. Skittles

You said: "I am more worried about the other?" Of course you didn't say those exact words but you alluded to the fact that your worried about reverse racism.

Here's what I actually said:

Originally Posted by Quagmire

If I run into a group of any other-color-than-me teenagers, I'm going to be more worried about whether or not they're racist.

I wouldn't be any less on my guard if I had to walk past a group of skin heads with swastikas tattooed on their necks. In fact, I'd have to watch myself even closer just to make sure I kept the look of disgust off of my face.

Pointing out to me that a group of African-American teenagers have a right to be angry is kind of a moot point in that situation. All I'm going to be looking for atm are signs that they are angry (or hostile, or giving me that "what the hell are you doing in our neighborhood" look), I'll worry about why later.

Originally Posted by Mr. Skittles

I made a mention that people of color in the United States have an understandable anger. Many have no recollection of their ancestral heritage or language. You cannot deny that. I say the projected anger is reasonable because of that fact

And for the third time: what does any of this have to do with what I said?

[MysticSang'ha]

On this issue, I can sympathize with Mr. Skittles.

I ask his critics a couple questions....do you think racism exists in the U.S.? Why or why not?

Perhaps we all can start there.

[gnomon]

Originally Posted by Mr. Skittles

In another forum someone made a thread about racism and what-do-ya-know, someone made a comment in a way which they wanted to steer discussion from racissm. At work, me and some of my Latino associates discuss racism from time to time. In some cases, we make comical remarks on stereotypes but of course we border being offensive to each others cultures. However, and this is my humble opinion as a minority in the United States, I notice most Caucasians or those of European descent are uncomfortable talking about it.

Now, I've asked some of my "white friends" why is there a discomfort talking about racism. Its no surprise that people of European descent have displaced people of color causing a loss of language and history. I was told recently by a co-worker that "racism is the past." Funny, I love bringing up birthers who, have made an attempt to make our president an "other," rather than an American which nobody else has done to past presidents.

I think theoretically there is a tuype of guilt, mixed with annoyance but I want to give my caucasian friends the floor as to why on online boards and offline why racism isn't talked about since its still prevalent today?

I dislike the discussions primarily because the definition of race tends to change in the discussion. One of the primary rules of any discussion or debate is that those involved are talking about the same thing.

As well is the inability to refrain from generalizing. Too many discussions of race focus on vague generalities and ignore the individual experience.

Also, I think simply replacing the term race with ethnic identity when attempting to have a conversation about race relations just muddies up the discussion even more.

[Absolute Zero]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

No, this is one of those discussions where you should read and respond to what people actually say, rather than trying to twist what they say into what you were hoping they'd say so you could claim the moral high ground and object to it.

Exp: someone says this:

And you respond with something that amounts to: "Bull! That's just a lot of politically correct BS. Just admit your a racist so I can get back to lecturing everybody".

Someone says:


Acknowledging that bigotry is an unfortunate fact of the human condition, which is an honest evaluation of people in general, IMO, and you turn it into "Justifying racism".

Someone says:


Which IMO is a pretty commendable example of someone admitting to something that they're ashamed of, and I'm guessing something that most people would have to admit if they could work up the courage to, and your response is basically "RACIST!!!"

Truth be told there's no doubt in my mind that this person isn't NEARLY as bigoted as you are. Other than that the only difference between you two is that he's confessing his prejudice in this thread, and you're wallowing in yours.



Don't worry, I did it for you.



Here's what I actually said:



I wouldn't be any less on my guard if I had to walk past a group of skin heads with swastikas tattooed on their necks. In fact, I'd have to watch myself even closer just to make sure I kept the look of disgust off of my face.

Pointing out to me that a group of African-American teenagers have a right to be angry is kind of a moot point in that situation. All I'm going to be looking for atm are signs that they are angry (or hostile, or giving me that "what the hell are you doing in our neighborhood" look), I'll worry about why later.



And for the third time: what does any of this have to do with what I said?

Im with you man.. Id do the same and make sure that if I walk past in hatefull group I know to get the F out and never come around there again.

[Shadow Wolf]

I made a mention that people of color in the United States have an understandable anger. Many have no recollection of their ancestral heritage or language. You cannot deny that. I say the projected anger is reasonable because of that fact

But that is not the fault of those living today. While there is an understandable frustration against the system as a whole that favors them in policies that are very discriminatory that come disguised as equal treatments (such as hiring and college admittance based on race, gender, etc.), turns a blind eye to the problems they are often socially plagued with, researchers who carry out more research that offers only more empty promises to "hopefully" fix social problems, and the treatment from police can make life seem no different than living under a fascist regime, but it does not justify a general anger at society in general. But to be anger at everyone would be no different than everyone who is lower-class being angery at everyone because of their misfortunes, even though it may be specific people and institutions holding them back, sometimes even it is only the individual that holds their own self back. And sometimes racial frustrations do extend further than what is reasonable.
But out of curiosity, how do you feel about Bill Cosby's remarks about irresponsible parents and a lack of personal responsibility within the black community?

Stereotypes (Yeah some people fulfill them but if you are convinced that society perceived you a certain way you'll fulfill that perception)

To add on that, you don't even have to behave as your stereotype to fulfill it in the eyes of the beholder. People will see you how they want to see you, regardless of what your actual behavior or motives are.

[Mr. Skittles]

Originally Posted by Revoltingest

There is also black privilege, eg, preferential admission to college, preferential hiring, a climate where they may discuss race publicly with less risk of backlash. There is Asian privilege, eg, an expectation that they'll do well in school, family support. There is Hispanic privilege, eg, the ability to claim to be either white or Hispanic (separate races, they say) as suits the occasion, great food. Better looking people have privilege, as do tall folk, people with the right accent, etc. I discuss race all the time with my customers....probably more than is appropriate, but it doesn't lose me business. When the subject of privilege comes up, I like to bring up voting. All black folk are Democrats (Yes, tis true!), so I point out that I have no representation as a Libertarian, but they get to elect about half of the presidents. It's always interesting, although I tend to shy away from the conspiracy theorists.

You must run with a better crowd than I do. I know black folk who do want us to feel guilty, but I find that they're in the minority. Since I feel no guilt, it doesn't bother me, which is a secret to discussing hot topics.....don't feel guilty for what someone else did.

Don't git me go'in 'bout cops, woman!

I suspect that many white folk don't like to discuss racism cuz it so often is about it being their fault.....the Spike Lee syndrome, eh?

Well cultural priviledge exists in most societies. However I find that white priviledge supercedes that of minority priviledge. We live in a "color conscious" society where being Caucasian is still seen as the superior ethnic group. The media tends to favor caucasians in a more positive light compared to minorities most notably hispanics and blacks as "dangerous criminals."

Take movies for instance, how many black, hispanic superheroes are being portrayed? Very few. In mainstream television how many daytime/nightime shows have positive images of minorities? I think in part, the internal resentment towards the ruling class maybe the result of an unfair classification of minorities.

With respect to affirmative action I am for one in favor. Merit or not there are a lot of kids in the urban area that dont have adequate school equipment much less positive guides to assist.

[Mr. Skittles]

Originally Posted by gnomon

I dislike the discussions primarily because the definition of race tends to change in the discussion. One of the primary rules of any discussion or debate is that those involved are talking about the same thing.

As well is the inability to refrain from generalizing. Too many discussions of race focus on vague generalities and ignore the individual experience.

Also, I think simply replacing the term race with ethnic identity when attempting to have a conversation about race relations just muddies up the discussion even more.

Well then one who has the problem of the term, should discuss in-depth on what definition we should use.

[Mr. Skittles]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

No, this is one of those discussions where you should read and respond to what people actually say, rather than trying to twist what they say into what you were hoping they'd say so you could claim the moral high ground and object to it.

Exp: someone says this:

And you respond with something that amounts to: "Bull! That's just a lot of politically correct BS. Just admit your a racist so I can get back to lecturing everybody".

Someone says:


Acknowledging that bigotry is an unfortunate fact of the human condition, which is an honest evaluation of people in general, IMO, and you turn it into "Justifying racism".

Someone says:


Which IMO is a pretty commendable example of someone admitting to something that they're ashamed of, and I'm guessing something that most people would have to admit if they could work up the courage to, and your response is basically "RACIST!!!"

Truth be told there's no doubt in my mind that this person isn't NEARLY as bigoted as you are. Other than that the only difference between you two is that he's confessing his prejudice in this thread, and you're wallowing in yours.



Don't worry, I did it for you.



Here's what I actually said:



I wouldn't be any less on my guard if I had to walk past a group of skin heads with swastikas tattooed on their necks. In fact, I'd have to watch myself even closer just to make sure I kept the look of disgust off of my face.

Pointing out to me that a group of African-American teenagers have a right to be angry is kind of a moot point in that situation. All I'm going to be looking for atm are signs that they are angry (or hostile, or giving me that "what the hell are you doing in our neighborhood" look), I'll worry about why later.



And for the third time: what does any of this have to do with what I said?

Ok so being the foreigner in a predominant minority neighborhood is cause to be wary just you would against a group of skinheads, well that is understandable I guess. But this depends where you are. Are you watching your back if your in a nice neighborhood with nice lawns and house but it happens to be all black? Or in an area where there are known gangs? Or are you watching your back if you see a group of hispanic kids laughing and having a good time amongst each other, Or a group of "cholos" standing around drinking alcohol in public?