Absolute pacifism?

[Chisti]

Salam,

Does anyone believe in absolute pacifism a la Tolstoy? You're not even allowed to defend yourself. Total nonresistance under any and all circumstances.

Peace,
Chisti

[lunakilo]

No.
It doesn't work in the real world.

The problem is that it would work fine if everybody where pacifists, but if just one person out of the whole human race was not a pacifist the rest would be in trouble.
If NOT being a pacifist has no consequences, some people will take advantage of that.

[Madhuri]

Defending is important but I think that if there is ever an alternative to violence then it should be taken.

[Odion]

Hell no.

My concept of non-violence is "don't hurt the innocent, but if you can't stop the wicked without force, kick the **** out of them".

[England my lionheart]

No,once all aternative avenues have been attempted you have to fight back

[Chisti]

Thanks for the replies.

I am just wondering how we'll know that we're right (in order for us to fight back), or how we'll know that someone is wicked and must therefore be stopped. How will we, as limited beings, come to the right conclusion as to whether a person is wicked or whether self-defense is legitimate in a given instance? And suppose we don't, we would have hurt innocent people.

But with pacifism, we could keep our conscience clean because we're not going to fight under any pretense.

[Revoltingest]

Originally Posted by Chisti

I am just wondering how we'll know that we're right (in order for us to fight back), or how we'll know that someone is wicked and must therefore be stopped. How will we, as limited beings, come to the right conclusion as to whether a person is wicked or whether self-defense is legitimate in a given instance? And suppose we don't, we would have hurt innocent people.

Lacking absolute truth, it will always be a matter of opinion & value.

But with pacifism, we could keep our conscience clean because we're not going to fight under any pretense.

Even pacifists allow things they believe to be evil to go unopposed.
To have a clean conscience would mean different things to different people.

[lunakilo]

Originally Posted by Chisti

I am just wondering how we'll know that we're right (in order for us to fight back), or how we'll know that someone is wicked and must therefore be stopped.

You mean like, is it ok to bomb Gadaffi's troups...

Originally Posted by Chisti

How will we, as limited beings, come to the right conclusion as to whether a person is wicked or whether self-defense is legitimate in a given instance? And suppose we don't, we would have hurt innocent people.

We will just have to do the best we can.
We will make mistakes, but hopefully for the most part we will get it right.

[Odion]

All you can do is the least possible to continue the violence.
If "stop" works, don't go further, for example.

It's not like we should go from sitting quietly to punching people's faces in or anything.

[sandandfoam]

Originally Posted by Chisti

Salam,

Does anyone believe in absolute pacifism a la Tolstoy? You're not even allowed to defend yourself. Total nonresistance under any and all circumstances.

Peace,
Chisti

Yes. I do believe in it.
I am not sure would I be brave enough in every situation - but I believe in pacifism a la Tolstoy.