Muslims leaving Islam for more reasoned beliefs/non-beliefs

[tumbleweed41]

Not that it really matters, other than my own personal hope for a more reasoned society.
But all these "So-and-So converts to Islam" threads are as equally trivial.


Ibn Warraq
Ali Sina
Parvin Darabi
Ayaan Hirsi Ali - Dutch feminist and politician
Anwar Sheikh
Mark A Gabriel
Ampbreia
Wafa Sultan - Arab American psychiatrist
Salman Rushdie - Indian Born British Writer
Taslima Nasrin
Apostates of Islam - We left Islam
Index
ISLAMIC REFORMATION MOVEMENT

[Caladan]

Originally Posted by tumbleweed41

But all these "So-and-So converts to Islam" threads are as equally trivial.

It is the propaganda of the defeated. Islam today is the most ridiculed religion in the world. its becoming outlawed throughout Europe, the lands of Islam are invaded by American forces, and its own adherents kill each other in higher rates than any western troop does.

[Bismillah]

I would hardly call Islam defeated.

[Caladan]

Originally Posted by Abibi

I would hardly call Islam defeated.

enlighten me. what is Islam achieving on the world stage? in international politics? in the welfare of the citizens in Islamic land, in scientific landmarks?

[ssainhu]

it is a sad state of affairs right now.
Muslims around the world are not following the creed as it is designed to be followed. they refuse to modernize and adapt to modernity. i am going to be bashed by other Muslims for saying this, but it's the truth. i see it every day; people judging others on outward appearances...no one is "good enough"...they're cheating their own people (and these are who we are to befriend)...they're stealing, lying, manipulating Shariah law to suit their political and dominating purposes...

it's a disaster right now. NOT the religion, its people. i used to say that you don't judge a religion by its people, but that's an insider looking out. as an outsider, what other example to they have?

if you don't know good, honest, humble, loving, tolerant Muslims (they ARE out there, in the MILLIONS, by the way)...and what you DO see is shown on CNN, FOX, etc., and if what you DO see is extremism eating at the core of Islam, then why on earth would anyone take Islam seriously?

for G-d's sake, we have fatwas in Saudi telling us we can't take flowers to the sick, and that we can't be "the same kind of friends" with non-Muslims as we can be with Muslims...we have religious police (albeit a small minority) hitting women for not covering "properly" and men for not having "a proper Shar'i beard. did Allah ordain this? NO. did our Prophet ordain the religious police to do these acts? NO. where did this nonsense come from? what has happened to us as a practicing people? why are we so focused on what others do and NOT on ourselves and setting a good example?

what do we expect non-Muslims to find appealing about our religion when they see misogyny, hatred for everyone outside of Islam, hatred for many WITHIN Islam, etc.? our religion does not teach these things, yet it's the most prevalent problem out there.

it's time for Muslims around the world to WAKE UP and realize that the rest of the world won't be bullied into accepting Islam as a respectable religion, let along THE religion...if we don't accept modernity (within certain boundaries as all religions have and need boundaries)...and adapt accordingly.

/rant

[ssainhu]

Originally Posted by Abibi

I would hardly call Islam defeated.

it's NOT defeated, but we are certainly in a defensive position rather than a proactive one right now for all (and more) of the reasons i listed.

it's heart-breaking.

yesterday i watched "Journey to Mecca" and i saw how pure and honest those people were back in those days...no judgment, just pure love for God and His creation. we've given way to nastiness and judging. anyone who doesn't see this is burying their head in the proverbial sand.

[Bismillah]

what is Islam achieving on the world stage? in international politics? in the welfare of the citizens in Islamic land, in scientific landmarks?

Enlighten me on how this equates with defeated? I could easily replace Islam and insert Medieval Europe and the statement would be just as true. What do you think constitutes "defeat" because none of your statements mean that something is "defeated".

The biggest thing Islam has going for it is oil.

[ssainhu]

Originally Posted by Caladan

enlighten me. what is Islam achieving on the world stage? in international politics? in the welfare of the citizens in Islamic land, in scientific landmarks?

well, you'll have to admit to a certain extent that outside forces are playing a role here...it's not in the world's "best interest" to have a united Middle East.

i don't place blame entirely on others though, as you can easily read in my post above. most of it is self-designed corruption and illiteracy from WITHIN.

[Caladan]

ssainu,

don't beat yourself up about it. sometimes people outgrow their religion, it happens. I also think you need to be realistic, masses of people will always make their religion look absurd in the eyes of other cultures, I've met plenty of decent Muslims, but Im more interested in their them as other men or women than their faith.

[tumbleweed41]

Originally Posted by ssainhu

it is a sad state of affairs right now.
Muslims around the world are not following the creed as it is designed to be followed. they refuse to modernize and adapt to modernity. i am going to be bashed by other Muslims for saying this, but it's the truth. i see it every day; people judging others on outward appearances...no one is "good enough"...they're cheating their own people (and these are who we are to befriend)...they're stealing, lying, manipulating Shariah law to suit their political and dominating purposes...

it's a disaster right now. NOT the religion, its people. i used to say that you don't judge a religion by its people, but that's an insider looking out. as an outsider, what other example to they have?

if you don't know good, honest, humble, loving, tolerant Muslims (they ARE out there, in the MILLIONS, by the way)...and what you DO see is shown on CNN, FOX, etc., and if what you DO see is extremism eating at the core of Islam, then why on earth would anyone take Islam seriously?

for G-d's sake, we have fatwas in Saudi telling us we can't take flowers to the sick, and that we can't be "the same kind of friends" with non-Muslims as we can be with Muslims...we have religious police (albeit a small minority) hitting women for not covering "properly" and men for not having "a proper Shar'i beard. did Allah ordain this? NO. did our Prophet ordain the religious police to do these acts? NO. where did this nonsense come from? what has happened to us as a practicing people? why are we so focused on what others do and NOT on ourselves and setting a good example?

what do we expect non-Muslims to find appealing about our religion when they see misogyny, hatred for everyone outside of Islam, hatred for many WITHIN Islam, etc.? our religion does not teach these things, yet it's the most prevalent problem out there.

it's time for Muslims around the world to WAKE UP and realize that the rest of the world won't be bullied into accepting Islam as a respectable religion, let along THE religion...if we don't accept modernity (within certain boundaries as all religions have and need boundaries)...and adapt accordingly.

/rant

Very well said.
At one time, Islam was represented by some of the most forward thinking and analytical minds in the world.
Today Islam is represented by many of the most repressive and barbaric adherants who make their voices known above the majority.