Good blog on the Immigration crisis (beliefs, choice, America, service)

[Ciscokid]

Not sure if this is the best place to put this but I wanted to share a good blog I found which deals with the immigration problem in America:

http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=3637

[Green Gaia]

I didn't read all of it, but what I did was a bit too,... um, nationalistic for my tastes. I just don't get those who harp on about the "American Identity" being undermined by illegal immigrants. Maybe it's because I consider myself a Human first and foremost that just happened to be born in this country therefore making me American by nationality. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I'm here. I love this country. But I don't see the American identity as one concrete thing. It's fluid. It changes with time and location. What it means to be American will be different to those in Maine compared with those in Hawaii. What it means to be American is different now than it was 100 years ago. Radically different? No. Some things stay the same. Love of freedom. Belief in religious tolerance (most places), etc. But cultures changes, everywhere, not just here. They always have and always will.

When I see the faces of "illegal immgrants" I see them as fellow humans, most of whom come here seeking a better life and cannot afford to do it the legal way because we make it so difficult and expensive. I do not see them as "aliens" who do not belong here just because they were born elsewhere. My heart goes out to them. They are my brothers and sisters. How can you turn away family?

Anyway, what does this site have to say about the government denying legal immigration to the partners of same-sex couples? Just curious, I didn't find anything about that.

[Ciscokid]

Originally Posted by Maize

I didn't read all of it, but what I did was a bit too,... um, nationalistic for my tastes. I just don't get those who harp on about the "American Identity" being undermined by illegal immigrants. Maybe it's because I consider myself a Human first and foremost that just happened to be born in this country therefore making me American by nationality. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I'm here. I love this country. But I don't see the American identity as one concrete thing. It's fluid. It changes with time and location. What it means to be American will be different to those in Maine compared with those in Hawaii. What it means to be American is different now than it was 100 years ago. Radically different? No. Some things stay the same. Love of freedom. Belief in religious tolerance (most places), etc. But cultures changes, everywhere, not just here. They always have and always will.

I'm not sure if you read this part of the article, it seems to address your question.

Immigration is not a threat to American identity only insofar as we require immigrants to assimilate into American culture. That is, by the way, something we used to do—and which legal immigrants, for the most part, still do willingly. But it's not something we do much of anymore. Now, we act as if all cultures are equally valid, and so we would never demand that immigrants, legal or otherwise, adopt the values of tolerance, liberty, and political plurality that we considered distinctively "American" in the past.

But that is the root of the problem. Americanism isn't a racial ideal. It is a cultural and national ideal. Americanism is the subscription to a specific set of beliefs. It is an ideological construct, without which the nomenclature of "American" becomes nothing more than a geographical identity. In such a case, it ceases to become a shorthand appellation for subscription to a prescribed set of political beliefs in liberty and popular sovereignty. The importance of that change—and the fundamental damage done to the ideal of Americanism—cannot be overestimated.

Originally Posted by Maize

When I see the faces of "illegal immgrants" I see them as fellow humans, most of whom come here seeking a better life and cannot afford to do it the legal way because we make it so difficult and expensive. I do not see them as "aliens" who do not belong here just because they were born elsewhere. My heart goes out to them. They are my brothers and sisters. How can you turn away family?

It is nice of you to be concerned for others...but how about helping them to make their native motherland a better place to live? Who's tax dollars are paying for the social services provided to the illegals? Yours and mine...and I'd rather my tax dollars go towards something else. If you want to be charitable...that's ok with me, but I'm not wanting my tax dollars going towards giving illegal immigrants a "better life".
It's the lazy way out of doing something about their own homeland.

Originally Posted by Maize

Anyway, what does this site have to say about the government denying legal immigration to the partners of same-sex couples? Just curious, I didn't find anything about that.

You'd have to ask the writer that...I don't think he was addressing same-sex couples.

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by Ciscokid

It is nice of you to be concerned for others...but how about helping them to make their native motherland a better place to live?

Absolutely. I'm all for helping improve conditions all over the world, in any country who seeks our aid. But for the mother in a country whose government will not accept help and it's people are dying, what other choice does she have in the here and now? Should we invade the country and force change? Should she wait for her country to improve conditions and allow aid and let her children suffer in the meantime?

Who's tax dollars are paying for the social services provided to the illegals? Yours and mine...and I'd rather my tax dollars go towards something else. If you want to be charitable...that's ok with me, but I'm not wanting my tax dollars going towards giving illegal immigrants a "better life".

Personally, I can't think of a better way than helping those in need for the government to spend my tax dollars. I don't and can't make a distinction between "illegals" and citizens. They are people and where they were birthed shouldn't matter. If people need help, they should be helped.

It's the lazy way out of doing something about their own homeland.

No, sometimes it's the only option some people have to live.

[Ciscokid]

Originally Posted by Maize

Absolutely. I'm all for helping improve conditions all over the world, in any country who seeks our aid. But for the mother in a country whose government will not accept help and it's people are dying, what other choice does she have in the here and now? Should we invade the country and force change? Should she wait for her country to improve conditions and allow aid and let her children suffer in the meantime?

I'm not aware of any problems in Mexico [death toll wise] that we don't have here in America. I don't know if you've ever seen the statistics of the types of people that are coming to America illegally. Many are young...and many are not here to be a positive addition to our nation. 95% of the outstanding homicide warrants in LA target illegal aliens. Some gangs in LA are comprised of 60% illegal aliens.

Illegal immigrants are obviously not required to go through any health checks before entering the county....guess who picks up the tab when they go to the hospital?

If you want to come to America...do it legally....if you can't...sorry to hear that. Neither you or I or AMERICA can solve all the worlds problems. There has to be a limits somewhere.

Originally Posted by Maize

Personally, I can't think of a better way than helping those in need for the government to spend my tax dollars. I don't and can't make a distinction between "illegals" and citizens. They are people and where they were birthed shouldn't matter. If people need help, they should be helped.

This is the same mindset Germany has...it's called Socialism...and look at what their financial state is right now. The Fed Government is NOT a charity organization...or at least it shouldn't be. There are a million charities designed to help those who are unfortunate...let them do their job...and let the Federal Gov. do it's job.



No, sometimes it's the only option some people have to live. [/quote]

[standing_alone]

Originally Posted by Ciscokid

...and look at what their financial state is right now.

What is their financial state? Maybe you could give us a source instead of just making a claim. I'd like to see some figures. I'd also like to point out that some of Germany's economic difficulites stem from fixing the economic situation in the former East Germany.

Originally Posted by Ciscokid

There are a million charities designed to help those who are unfortunate

A million, eh?

[Ciscokid]

Originally Posted by standing_alone

What is their financial state? Maybe you could give us a source instead of just making a claim. I'd like to see some figures. I'd also like to point out that some of Germany's economic difficulites stem from fixing the economic situation in the former East Germany.

Maybe you can address the topic at hand. Germany is not bankrupt but it doles out a ton of money to social programs. I'd rather America not resemble the likes of Germany, or perhaps a better example...Canada.

Originally Posted by standing_alone

A million, eh?

Erm, it's called exaggeration. Anyway, feel free to add to any of the main points in the discussion...

[BUDDY]

For me, the societal and economic implications that are reported by some have little bearing on the debate. I welcome immigration. I welcome the influx of new ideas and cultures into our society. Just do it legally is all I ask. Likewise, our government has a responsibility to inforce the laws on immigration. If we do nothing, it will result in chaos.