The Reptile-Bird Theory. Real or Fake?

[eselam]

i personally do not believe in darwinism. i believe that darwin was a delusional man who obviously had never seen any animals appart from day to day farm animals and thus was amazed when he saw different kinds of birds, which is the starting point of this whole fake theory which isn't even a fact.

from what i know, the Archaeopteryx (below) seems to be the best example that supports the theory of dinosaurs somehow magically "evolving" into birds.



this is where more info can be found about it:
Archaeopteryx - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NOTE: the links to the references that i use will be posted later on.

[eselam]

the first thing that i would like to speak of, is it's lungs.

if this creature is indeed a transitional link between dinosaurs and birds then it should have a lung that is not like that of a reptile, due to having 'evolved' but it should also not be like that of a modern bird due to not having 'evolved' completely.

does anyone have any information about what evolution scientists say in relation to the lungs of this reptile-bird creature?

The Lungs of Reptiles vs The Lungs of Birds;

THE SPECIAL LUNGS OF BIRDS
Birds have a very different anatomy from their alleged ancestors, the reptiles. Bird lungs operate in a completely different fashion from those of mammals. Mammals inhale and exhale air through the same windpipe. In birds, however, the air enters and exits through opposite ends. A special "design" such as this has been created to provide for the high volumes of air needed during flight. Evolution of such a structure from that of reptiles is not possible.

The respiratory system of mammals and birds operate on completely different principles, primarily because birds need oxygen in much greater quantities than do mammals. For example, a certain bird could require up to twenty times the amount of oxygen necessary for humans. Therefore, the lungs of mammals cannot provide oxygen in the quantities required by birds. This is why the lungs of birds are created upon a much different design.
In mammals, air flow is bidirectional: air travels through a network of channels, and stops at the small air sacs. Oxygen-carbon dioxide exchange takes place here. Used air follows a reverse course in leaving the lung and is discharged through the windpipe.
On contrary, in birds, air flow is unidirectional. New air comes in one end, and the used air goes out the other end. This provides an uninterrupted supply of oxygen for birds, which satisfies their need for high levels of energy. Michael Denton, an Australian biochemist and a well-known critic of Darwinism, explains the avian lung in this way:
In the case of birds, the major bronchi break down into tiny tubes which permeate the lung tissue. These so-called parabronchi eventually join up together again, forming a true circulatory system so that air flows in one direction through the lungs…. Although air sacs occur in certain reptilian groups, the structure of the lung in birds and the overall functioning of the respiratory system is quite unique. No lung in any other vertebrate species is known which in any way approaches the avian system. Moreover, it is identical in all essential details in birds…
In his book A Theory in Crisis, Michael Denton also points out to the impossibility of formation of such a perfect system through progressive evolution:

Unidirectional airflow in the bird's lungs is facilitated by a system of air-sacs. These sacs collect air and then pump it regularly into the lung. In this way, there is always fresh air in the lungs. A complex respiratory system such as this has been created to satisfy birds' needs for high quantities of oxygen.

Just how such an utterly different respiratory system could have evolved gradually from the standard vertebrate design is fantastically difficult to envisage, especially bearing in mind that the maintenance of respiratory function is absolutely vital to the life of an organism to the extent that the slightest malfunction leads to death within minutes. Just as the feather cannot function as an organ of flight until the hooks and barbules are coadapted to fit together perfectly, so the avian lung cannot function as an organ of respiration until the parabronchi system which permeates it and the air sac system which guarantees the parabronchi their air supply are both highly developed and able to function together in a perfectly integrated manner.
In short, the transition from mammal lung to avian lung is impossible due to the fact that the lung that would be in a transitional developmental stage would have no functionality. No creature without lungs can live for even a few minutes. Therefore, the creature simply would not have millions of years to wait for random mutations to save its life.
The unique structure of the avian lung demonstrates the presence of a perfect design that supplies the high levels of oxygen required for flight. It only takes a little bit of a common sense to see that the unparalleled anatomy of birds is not an arbitrary result of unconscious mutations. It is clear that the lungs of a bird are another of the countless evidences that all creatures have been created by Allah.

[kai]

Heres your answer.

The fact is that not only is the evidence very strong that birds evolved from theropod dinosaurs, but there is no objection 'in principle' to development of the avian respiratory system.

Bird Lung

[kai]

more on Archaeopteryx

Evidence of Evolutionary Transitions (ActionBioscience)

[eselam]

Originally Posted by kai

Heres your answer.

The fact is that not only is the evidence very strong that birds evolved from theropod dinosaurs, but there is no objection 'in principle' to development of the avian respiratory system.

Bird Lung

so from what kind of theropod dinosaur did birds 'evolve' from exactly?

you can't just say the 'evolved' from theropod, cos i was just looking at them and some of them were prety darn big, i can't seem to think of a bird that is about 10-20 times bigger than humans. can you? i won't waste my time on creatures that have nothing to do with this part of the theory.

once the proper theropod is put forward then we shall see if the bird lung is supported by it.

and that site just states that the lung is of a theropod dinosaur, but what kind exactly and where are it's remains, or when was it discovered or how old it is, is not mentioned. so what kind of theropod is it?

[kai]

scream if you want to go faster!

theres more

Bird Respiratory System

[kai]

Originally Posted by eselam

so from what kind of theropod dinosaur did birds 'evolve' from exactly?

you can't just say the 'evolved' from theropod, cos i was just looking at them and some of them were prety darn big, i can't seem to think of a bird that is about 10-20 times bigger than humans. can you? i won't waste my time on creatures that have nothing to do with this part of the theory.

once the proper theropod is put forward then we shall see if the bird lung is supported by it.

and that site just states that the lung is of a theropod dinosaur, but what kind exactly and where are it's remains, or when was it discovered or how old it is, is not mentioned. so what kind of theropod is it?

its all in the link


A recent paper in Nature (11), shows that theropod dinosaurs have vertebrae pneumatized in a way that is very similar to modern birds. The authors have investigated the well preserved fossil of a theropod dinosaur called Majungatholus atopus and have found that the vertebrae possess very close similaritiies in pneumaticity compared with an extant bird (the sarus crane). See fig 1 below.


Bird Lung



(2005) reported on the basis of a comparative analysis of region-specific pneumaticity with extant birds, evidence for cervical and abdominal air-sac systems in non-avian theropods, along with thoracic skeletal prerequisites of an avian-style aspiration pump.The authors demonstrated by examination of an exceptional new specimen of Majungatholus atopus, (Majungasaurus), documenting these features in a taxon only distantly related to birds. Taken together, these specializations imply the existence of the basic avian pulmonary Bauplan in basal neotheropods, indicating that flow-through ventilation of the lung is not restricted to birds but is probably a general theropod characteristic."

http://www.dinodata.org/index.php?op...6974&Itemid=67

[England my lionheart]

Originally Posted by eselam

i personally do not believe in darwinism. i believe that darwin was a delusional man who obviously had never seen any animals appart from day to day farm animals and thus was amazed when he saw different kinds of birds, which is the starting point of this whole fake theory which isn't even a fact.



from what i know, the Archaeopteryx (below) seems to be the best example that supports the theory of dinosaurs somehow magically "evolving" into birds.



this is where more info can be found about it:
Archaeopteryx - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NOTE: the links to the references that i use will be posted later on.

Esalam is this a joke are you serious

[eselam]

Originally Posted by England my lionheart

Esalam is this a joke are you serious

am i serious that it is a joke or am i serious that it's serious?

what are you asking?

[eselam]

Originally Posted by kai

its all in the link


A recent paper in Nature (11), shows that theropod dinosaurs have vertebrae pneumatized in a way that is very similar to modern birds. The authors have investigated the well preserved fossil of a theropod dinosaur called Majungatholus atopus and have found that the vertebrae possess very close similaritiies in pneumaticity compared with an extant bird (the sarus crane). See fig 1 below.


Bird Lung



(2005) reported on the basis of a comparative analysis of region-specific pneumaticity with extant birds, evidence for cervical and abdominal air-sac systems in non-avian theropods, along with thoracic skeletal prerequisites of an avian-style aspiration pump.The authors demonstrated by examination of an exceptional new specimen of Majungatholus atopus, (Majungasaurus), documenting these features in a taxon only distantly related to birds. Taken together, these specializations imply the existence of the basic avian pulmonary Bauplan in basal neotheropods, indicating that flow-through ventilation of the lung is not restricted to birds but is probably a general theropod characteristic."

DinoData - Majungatholus atopus [jG]

damn missed that. thanks