Birds from Reptiles? (Earth, dinosaur, blood, evolution, confess)

[HelpMe]

please direct me to such a thread if it already exists.

i would like to know what proof you think there is.

archaeoraptor?

[Pah]

longisquama

Compsognathus

[HelpMe]

weak.

imo, feathers are amongst the least relevant differences between birds and dinosaurs.

Originally Posted by pah

longisquama

http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/ed.htm

Originally Posted by pah

Compsognathus

http://www.dinodata.net/Dd/Namelist/Tabs/S082.htm

this is your strongest case?

http://www.aibs.org/bioscience/biosc....97.birds.html


do you support the arboreal or the cursorial theory?

i'm much more interested in how you explain the difference in the lungs and the metabolic differences than feathers.i was obtuse to assume you would know this, my bad.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by HelpMe

this is your strongest case?

Having a poverty of evidence yourself, you've given no indication of your willingness to honestly evaluate evidence, much less your competency to do so. There is no argument capable of swaying willful ignorance. Unless and until you make crystal clear reasonable criteria for the evaluation of evidence, and show yourself willing to defend your position with evidence that meets that criteria, you're resistance to arguments reflects little more irritating petulance.

[anders]

I must confess that I don't understand neither the OP nor the answers, but for questions on evolution (which I think this one amounts to) I think that there is nothing like http://www.talkorigins.org/index.html.

[Seyorni]

Archosauria is not Reptilia. Current biology does not class dinosaurs with reptiles. Birds appear to be a unique class of archosaurs that persisted into the Pleistocene.

[painted wolf]

well... feathers mean nothing to you?
The fact that most carnivorus dinosaurs had feathers of one sort or another means nothing
The fact that many dinosaurs had wings?
The fact that dinoasars had wishbones, flapping arms, folding wrists, s shaped necks and hosts of other features that are shared by birds.
how about the fact that if you look at the skeleton of an early bird it looks just like a dinosaur.
Jeholornis (bird): http://dino.lm.com/images/display.php?id=687
various dinosaurs: http://dino.lm.com/images/display.php?id=2044
Yandangornis (bird): http://dino.lm.com/images/display.php?id=1808
Microraptor (four winged dinosaur): http://dino.lm.com/images/display.php?id=1858
Rahonavis (bird): http://dino.lm.com/images/display.php?id=1807
Caudupteryx (dinosaur): http://dino.lm.com/images/display.php?id=468

I'll let the actual animals demonstrate.

I leave it at this, If others genuinely want to know about the dinosaur- bird transition I may later post showing the line extending back through to the earliset dinosaurs. (some of wich had amazingly advanced bird-like features like the Triassic Herrarasaurs)

Longisquama is interesting but not in the bird linage based on differences in the skull, legs, back, hips, wrists and so on. Plus the 'feathers' are not really feathers but are certenly similar if you don't look to close.

now lets touch on metabolism, all the evidence points to dinosaurs being warm blooded. This evidence is found in both bone histology (thier bones don't look reptilian on the inside) and thier tremendous growth rates. (6 oz hatchling to 6 ton adult in as few as 6 years) They had four chambered bird like hearts, thanks to the find called Willo. They didn't move or act like cold blooded animals, they were highly active and had very bird-like behaviors. (heaarding, running, jumping, flying)
As for the lungs clames that they are not bird like were made based on pictures not actually viewing the specimin... if you acutally look at it you can see details. Their arguments were refuted in 1997

wa:do

[Seyorni]

Wolf -- I've not read that most carnivorous dinos were feathered, but this feature does show up in the fossil record.

A curious fact: While feathers appear in fossils of terestrial and ambiguously aerial/terrestrial archosaurs, the pteradons -- some groups of which were more highly specialized for flight than modern birds -- were clearly furred. Kind of opposite the present land/aerial animal design.

I'm sure you're also that aware that insulation like fur or feathers is a feature of endothermic, or warm-blooded organisms, not lizards.

[Scuba Pete]

My daughter's "Odyssey of the Mind" group had to design a "fictional" dinosaur. They also had to construct it and create a realistic diorama. Now this preceded the "dinosaur into bird" theories by about a year or two. But when they took one dino skeleten and came up with it becoming a bird, I had CHILLS.

A year or so later when they ran this "Scientific Breakthrough" on headline news as well as in the paper, I had to smile and think that it was only "kid's play". BTW, they won the local competition and came in third in state.

[HelpMe]

Originally Posted by Deut. 32.8

Having a poverty of evidence yourself, you've given no indication of your willingness to honestly evaluate evidence, much less your competency to do so...

There is no argument capable of swaying willful ignorance...

...defend your position with evidence that meets that criteria

thanks for your opinion, i would offer mine, but then i would also feel like scraping my dirty self off of the floor.

i tend to agree.

your criteria, of course! i thoug