Georgia Judge Orders Removal of Stickers from Textbooks (beliefs, evolution)

[No*s]

Robtex, I agree wholeheartedly. I'm talking to a friend on IM now, and he didn't even realize that it was being pushed by a religious agenda. He's a good and honest man, and I trust him, but it illustrates a problem. Many Christians don't even realize that their interpretation of Genisis made theory is not a scientific theory. They hear tons of speakers, and not being interested in the subject, assume that the presentation is true. It's a hard, sad reality.

As a result, I think a lot of this is misunderstanding about the facts. I just wish there was a way to clear it up...

[robtex]

Well NO*s you just blew your chance of ever getting back in with the Baptist church. How does your friend tie into this? You lost me on his interest to you. Kinda curious. Thanks for the pat on the back.....

[No*s]

Originally Posted by robtex

Well NO*s you just blew your chance of ever getting back in with the Baptist church. How does your friend tie into this? You lost me on his interest to you. Kinda curious. Thanks for the pat on the back.....

Wlecome .

The Baptists always considered me something of a loon for a variety of reasons. I'm not worried about getting back in anyway. I've already found out I've been spoken of as a man who's "has a lot of learning, but has lost his faith in Greek philosophy" lol. I've almost graduated to full-fledged pagan in a lot of their eyes. I think my profs (not my pastors) saw it coming though even while I was in the university, but that is digressing.

This particular friend is not one of the ones that took off on me. He stuck with me, so he'll stick with me some more . As for how he ties into this, he does so because he shares the strict creationist mentality. He cannot see how the labels were put into the textbooks on the basis of a religious agenda. He's not dumb, either, he's about as smart as I am (better at memorizing facts, though...just not good at arguing or systemtizing them).

When he heard about it, he saw what he termed a "liberal judge" who wanted to remove the stickers. He didn't register why they were added. He only thought about the fact that they were removed. As a result, he perceived it as another bit if judicial activism.

He also beleives what he has been taught by his parents, Christian (usually Baptist) teachers in school, and what he learned in church. This being that Creationism is a scientific theory, and that the term "theory" should be held in contradistinction to "fact." He knows what a "theory" means, but he thinks it ceases being a theory when it is validated. He believes this on the basis of his teachers, and my word carries little weight in that part of science. I'm not a scientist, and while he may respect me as an informed layman on many things, not when it comes to this.

Now, we add to this that he honestly believes that scientific creationism has strong evidence behind it. It also concurs with his literal reading of the Bible that he was taught (he never considers, say, the solid heavens with windows. That part is figurative, but that's also what he was taught). So, he believes creationism is true, and that evolution is false (worse, proposed as a counter to God). Therefore, fighting to get creationism into school is a fight for truth.

Now, when all this adds up, we have honest men and women who seriously believe that what they are doing is right, they believe that their side has been proven but rejected by the scientific community, they believe that this community is contrary to Christianity, and lastly that the theory is designed in opposition to God. Aristotle pointed out in the beginning of his "Politics" (might have been another book...I'm not sure and not looking it up here) that every man seeks to do what is good. Nobody is an exception.

This movement is a movement of people who feel actively threatened by evolution, and he's a good example (well, he's more stable, not paranoid lol). They are trying to defend themselves and keep their children from being deceived. They will, therefore, fight with spirit in order to do this. It's not out of malice, and it's not out of cruelty. It's actually out of compassion.

It is also not silly when we look at it that way. They believe that they are establishing a freedom of religion in the schools, because it has been taken by evolution, which they believe in itself is a religious belief. My friend, again, exemplifies this.

I was supporting your solution. It is correct, that a good history class on the history of the biblical text here would do good. Unfortunately, that isn't going to happen (and it would be wrong to teach said history in a negative manner just as it would with the Koran in that manner). The only solution is to get these kids educated. That's where I fall apart. I can't see how to countermand it, except critical thinking classes...but these same classes have to be taught by someone with the skills, and that is in short supply .

[Faust]

What better place to teach children the difference between science and dogma than in the classroom? Its not explained in the media. Kids just hear that there is another "theory" out there called creationism. They see it on TV and its made real. There's no discussion about scientific method,evidence, ect... How are they to learn to discriminate?

I say give them the proper tools under the proper guidance, present the two together where they can be compared and critically analyzed and let them learn the very points that are presented against religion as science that are being brought up on this thread.
Or we can just sit back and let them make what they will from incomplete information presented by a media that is either afraid or not allowed to cover the fenominon in a complete and critical manner,with ratings as their main concern,shackled by the fear of offending a portion of their viewers.
Kids get more of their info from media and each other than anywhere. They need a source that is concerned with teaching them to really think about such an important issue. Thats why I said a course on critical thought should be prerequisite to the course comparing evolution and creationism.
Faust.

[Darwin Redux]

Originally Posted by Deut. 32.8

Why would such a prerequisite justify teaching religioun in a science class?

Well, firstly, I have to say that I am opposed to the teaching of Creationism in the science classroom.

But if students were taught critical thinking before being 'subjected' to both, they would be able to reject Creationism outright for what it isn't - science. In a way, this is a more potent way of battling creationism. Rather than banning it (which I actually support, because I don't think our kids are taught enough critical thinking to equip them for analysing ID/Creationism), teaching kids to actually think about it would mean that creationism is exposed for what it is - fraud.

[LittleNipper]

What good is science if it is not the spreading the truth. If Christianity is not scientific, does that make it untruthful? If science is not Christian, does that make it correct? Evolution is not about logic. Logic and philosophy are no longer taught in public high schools, neither is a critical review of evolution.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by LittleNipper

Logic and philosophy are no longer taught in public high schools, neither is a critical review of evolution.

This from a man who believes that zombies strolled the streets of Jerusalem.

Logic and philosophy are indeed taught in the schools and evolution has been subjected to endless and multifaceted peer-review.

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Originally Posted by The Voice of Reason

News From NPR - this link is to an audio clip that played on National Public Radio:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4282830

A federal judge in Georgia rules that a suburban school district must remove stickers from its science textbooks that describe evolution as a theory, not a fact.

It's old news, but

Put bluntly, anyone that does not know that evolution is both a theory and a fact should not be allowed to make these kinds of decisions.

Well? Was the judge right, or should the stickers have stayed in the textbooks, as the majority of the people wished?

TVOR

The idea was to boost critical thinking among the students. Good idea, but this is the wrong issue to do it with. More suitable would have been to have a curriculum segment in social studies classes that allows students to debate religious, philosophical, or other views, with the teacher serving as the impartial moderator.

[Ceridwen018]

Go Georgia, it's your birfday...

I was really quite worried when Georgia first decided on these stickers, so I'm very glad now that they've revoked them. Faith in Georgia has been restored for me. If only Pennsylvania could be as lucky...