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Reload this Page Evolution, what evidence is there and what does creationism have?
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  #261  
Old 05-15-2009, 09:40 AM
themadhair Offline
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themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.
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Originally Posted by emiliano View Post
It going to take time, this specific complexity is a term coined by Paul Davis “The problem, as he sees it, with currently known scientific laws, like the laws of chemistry and physics, is that they are not up to explaining the key feature of life that needs to be explained. That feature is specified complexity. Life is both complex and specified”
The following is the boiled down version of why this fails. In information terms complexity is correlated with difficulty to compress that information, and specificity is correlated with ease of compression. See where this idea of specified complexity, almost by its very definition, is already going off the rails?

Specified complexity was first coined by Demski in ‘The Design inference’- a book specifically mentioned in the Wedge strategy. You want to tie your bets to this crowd?

Quote:
And this is a chaotic system?
Depends on the context you are referring to. The force that is dominant here, gravity, is really the only one that counts. In that respect it is a non-chaotic gravitational system. Other than that the question makes no contextual sense.
__________________
”While one can make a belief sufficiently vague and ephemeral and supernatural to place it beyond scrutiny and contestation, one rarely ever succeeds in placing the barrier of vagueness to stifle it being a pretext for the unjustifiable.“ – Precepts, First book of Zacarianism
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  #262  
Old 05-15-2009, 09:43 AM
emiliano Offline
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emiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on trees
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Originally Posted by Tristesse View Post
Life can't sustain in 99.9999 percent of the universe, so, god in his infinite wisdom decided to create this entire universe, with billions upon billions of planets, and stick us on this one little ball, going around another little ball, in a microscopic little spot in the universe. But it was somehow created for us. The theory of gravity explains the order we notice in the universe, but there is most definitely chaos outside our little ball, you have meteor showers, black holes, I mean it's utter chaos. But anyways, you only took one small portion of my statement, and didn't bother to rebuttal on the rest. I was explaining to you, natural processes require a different explanation than manufactured processes, such as watches buildings, music, etc...
Well we could change the definition of Chaos and problem solved, what you recon? Davis does it, so can we? My Brother asked me that once why so many stars and planets? I answered by saying it is a message and the Psalmist King David saw it this way:
Psa 8:3
When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, The moon and the stars, which You have ordained,
Psa 8:4
What is man that You are mindful of him, And the son of man that You visit him?
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  #263  
Old 05-15-2009, 09:50 AM
Tristesse Offline
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Tristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubal
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Originally Posted by emiliano View Post
Well we could change the definition of Chaos and problem solved, what you recon? Davis does it, so can we? My Brother asked me that once why so many stars and planets? I answered by saying it is a message and the Psalmist King David saw it this way:
Psa 8:3
When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, The moon and the stars, which You have ordained,
Psa 8:4
What is man that You are mindful of him, And the son of man that You visit him?
Ok, it depends, what would you change it to? Because by the strictest definition, the universe is chaos. Those passages you offered, are very poetic, but not very insightful. It's about the same kind of knowledge you would expect from someone living in the 1st century. So, I'm not sure why you felt they were relevant, I mean the passage it's self is nice, but it offers no insight into anything we now know.
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  #264  
Old 05-15-2009, 09:56 AM
themadhair Offline
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themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.themadhair sleeps on a big pile of frubals. This is how some of them end up with drool stains.
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Originally Posted by emiliano View Post
Well we could change the definition of Chaos and problem solved, what you recon?
Please specify which concept of chaos you are using.
__________________
”While one can make a belief sufficiently vague and ephemeral and supernatural to place it beyond scrutiny and contestation, one rarely ever succeeds in placing the barrier of vagueness to stifle it being a pretext for the unjustifiable.“ – Precepts, First book of Zacarianism
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  #265  
Old 05-15-2009, 11:04 PM
emiliano Offline
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emiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on trees
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Originally Posted by Tristesse View Post
Ok, it depends, what would you change it to? Because by the strictest definition, the universe is chaos. Those passages you offered, are very poetic, but not very insightful. It's about the same kind of knowledge you would expect from someone living in the 1st century. So, I'm not sure why you felt they were relevant, I mean the passage it's self is nice, but it offers no insight into anything we now know.

This is a hard task so let see so far the contributions that we have are: “The force that is dominant here, gravity, is really the only one that counts. In that respect it is a non-chaotic gravitational system”(TMH) so we have here that the planets and the stars are at such distance from each other that implosion of the big bang does not occur, could this be the product of chance? So what about a non chaotic, chaotic universe? Not that won’t work, what a pity. Your contribution is: Nobody said the "system" was chaotic. What happens in the universe is chaotic, smaller planets rotate around bigger planets, it's a gravitational pull. Thats just how we know the universe to work. ??????????????????? That surely shows that the universe is not chaotic and from that I infer that it is ordain and sustained supernaturally and that this generations of scientist are working toward some understanding of it, only God knows how long before they can understand it and they are not that far advanced in their understating that the King. They don’t know how the universe works yet. What I am certain of it that is not the product of chance.
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  #266  
Old 05-15-2009, 11:07 PM
emiliano Offline
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emiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on trees
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Originally Posted by themadhair View Post
Please specify which concept of chaos you are using.
A non-chaotic universe ordained and sustained supernaturally by God the Almighty.
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  #267  
Old 05-16-2009, 05:05 AM
emiliano Offline
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emiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on treesemiliano thinks frubals grow on trees
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I am thinking of buying a book that could help and I can decide yet Dembski or Pope Benedict In a new book, Creation and Evolution, published Wednesday in German, the pope praised progress gained by science, but cautioned that evolution raises philosophical questions science alone cannot answer.
"The question is not to either make a decision for a creationism that fundamentally excludes science, or for an evolutionary theory that covers over its own gaps and does not want to see the questions that reach beyond the methodological possibilities of natural science," the pope said.
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  #268  
Old 05-16-2009, 08:24 AM
Tristesse Offline
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Tristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubal
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Originally Posted by emiliano View Post
This is a hard task so let see so far the contributions that we have are: “The force that is dominant here, gravity, is really the only one that counts. In that respect it is a non-chaotic gravitational system”(TMH) so we have here that the planets and the stars are at such distance from each other that implosion of the big bang does not occur, could this be the product of chance? So what about a non chaotic, chaotic universe? Not that won’t work, what a pity. Your contribution is: Nobody said the "system" was chaotic. What happens in the universe is chaotic, smaller planets rotate around bigger planets, it's a gravitational pull. Thats just how we know the universe to work. ??????????????????? That surely shows that the universe is not chaotic and from that I infer that it is ordain and sustained supernaturally and that this generations of scientist are working toward some understanding of it, only God knows how long before they can understand it and they are not that far advanced in their understating that the King. They don’t know how the universe works yet. What I am certain of it that is not the product of chance.
Your just not getting it, I'm not talking about the planets being in chaos. Not once did I mention the planets, The universe as a whole. Whats chaotic is what happens in the universe, not the rotation of the planets. Meteor showers, black holes. It's not a friendly place.
Now your next point was, since it's not chaotic therefore it's supernatural. You have to prove supernatural cause, you can't just say, I don't know how this has happened, therefore it's supernatural. Which we went over, it's a gravitational pull, larger objects pull on smaller ones, I'm assuming you've been to high school well, maybe not, I don't know how old you are. To give up and say "god did it" is the biggest non answer, because it doesn't tell us anything, I mean what created god? Is he something that could be observed? your filling a gap of knowledge with a non answer. I'm sure it makes you feel comfortable, but I'd rather know the truth, and if we can't ever know the truth, than I'm happy saying I don't know, because it doesn't stop further investigation.
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  #269  
Old 05-16-2009, 08:31 AM
Tristesse Offline
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Tristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalTristesse says every time your read this, God slaps another frubal
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Originally Posted by emiliano View Post
I am thinking of buying a book that could help and I can decide yet Dembski or Pope Benedict In a new book, Creation and Evolution, published Wednesday in German, the pope praised progress gained by science, but cautioned that evolution raises philosophical questions science alone cannot answer.
"The question is not to either make a decision for a creationism that fundamentally excludes science, or for an evolutionary theory that covers over its own gaps and does not want to see the questions that reach beyond the methodological possibilities of natural science," the pope said.
You know I think it's quite funny, the pope before this new one. Accepted the theory of evolution, he noticed the overwhelming evidence to support it. Now we have a new pope and he doesn't accept evolution, as if this new pope had a better land line directly to god. It's absurd. If your going to read a book about evolution you might want to read one that tells the fact, not one thats biased towards what you want to hear. Because the fact of the matter, is a lot of those creationist book, lie to get there point across. They give misinformation, most of them have never even studied biology, or evolution. So, their only speaking from their pure bias standpoint. I think it's about 99.9% of biologist understand and accept the fact of evolution, the only ones who don't are people(not scientists) and creationists.
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  #270  
Old 05-16-2009, 05:56 PM
OmarKhayyam Offline
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Just explain in scientific terms WHAT your problem is with ToE.

IF you only objection is theological than - who cares? Science doesn't deal with theology.

You got a better scientific explanation for the diversity of life - post it.

Until you DO ToE stands unrefuted.
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