God, creation and humanity

[Autodidact]

Originally Posted by Willamena

Did your question exist before you asked it?

that's not the issue. The issue is not whether new things come into existence; they do so constantly. The issue is whether new matter/energy is created, or whether it is only transformed. In this universe which we can observe, it is never created, only transformed.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by camanintx

Yes, but like the question, it came from what preceded it, not from nothing.

What preceded it was not question. There was no question; then there was a question. Something from nothing.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by Autodidact

that's not the issue. The issue is not whether new things come into existence; they do so constantly. The issue is whether new matter/energy is created, or whether it is only transformed. In this universe which we can observe, it is never created, only transformed.

Materialism concerns itself with that portion of all the things in the universe (matter/energy). I've no evidence that camanintx wants to approach this from a materialist stance (yet), so it may very well be to the issue at hand.

[camanintx]

Originally Posted by Willamena

What preceded it was not question. There was no question; then there was a question. Something from nothing.

Isn't that like saying ice comes from nothing because there was no ice in my glass of water before I put it in the freezer?

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by camanintx

Isn't that like saying ice comes from nothing because there was no ice in my glass of water before I put it in the freezer?

Ice has a form that we experience; water has such a form. We do not experience "freezing" or "melting". Freezing and melting are processes we have defined to explain an apparent transformation from water to ice and ice to water. For us, there is ice, and then there are drops on the ice, and then there are drops puddling under the (smaller) ice, and then there is water. Everything in between, the bits we don't get to see, we fill in the blanks. If it happens consistently, we deem it reasonable to assume. So skilled are we at the fill-in-the-blanks game that we've developed a whole method to test our blanks, sometimes on a massive scale, to see if they are reasonable to assume.

Go us!

[camanintx]

Originally Posted by Willamena

Ice has a form that we experience; water has such a form. We do not experience "freezing" or "melting". Freezing and melting are processes we have defined to explain an apparent transformation from water to ice and ice to water. For us, there is ice, and then there are drops on the ice, and then there are drops puddling under the (smaller) ice, and then there is water. Everything in between, the bits we don't get to see, we fill in the blanks. If it happens consistently, we deem it reasonable to assume. So skilled are we at the fill-in-the-blanks game that we've developed a whole method to test our blanks, sometimes on a massive scale, to see if they are reasonable to assume.

Go us!

And that explains how something comes from nothing how?

[Arlanbb]

Charity ~ I have one simple question on the biblical creation? When did the biblical creation happen on our earth? I want a simple time line. Example - Was it 3000 years ago or 30,000 years ago or what time? arlan

[Charity]

Originally Posted by Arlanbb

Charity ~ I have one simple question on the biblical creation? When did the biblical creation happen on our earth? I want a simple time line. Example - Was it 3000 years ago or 30,000 years ago or what time? arlan

Arlan this sounds like your delivering an untimatum when you say "I want a simple time line".....I really don't like to be delivered an ultimatum on anything, never did, and I never will....
I am a very honest person and I am the first to admit that I can't give you an exact date. There have been Scientists, Old World Creationists and many educated scholars who have studied this for years. They base their information working with different calendars like Julian Calendar, Hebrew Calendar and the Talmud. They base chronological and historical facts with dates and even work backward in their efforts to retrace and define exact times. Most estimates are as I understand based on actual measurements and calculations....

Any date that I give you is based on the opinion of others from their observation and findings. The time of actual creation has never impressed me to give a diddley squat as to when it happened, I just know it did....Historical events and bible connections and dates do interest me so therefore that is where I place most of my study time. Science is not an interest to me so you need to find someone who is skilled in that area to place your demand....

I did read where most creation scientists believe earth is less than 10,000 years old. Again that is a creations scientist. Not my estimate, because "I don't care"

[Arlanbb]

Charity ~ I didn't "demand" you answer my question on when creation might have happened. I was trying to find out what your thoughts were on the subject because you brought up the creation question. Sorry you miss understood and thank you for your answer of around 10,000 years ago for creation by other people, not your self.

You state that "the Bible does not tell us how the human race [was] actually created." When you read your bible did you miss Gen. 2:7 The Lord God formed man of the dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of Life and man became a living being.

You also asked what evidence do your assumptions rest that the biblical creation is false. There is lots of scientific evidence [you did want scientific evidence didn't you?] that prove the biblical creation has not happened in the last say 100,000 years. All you have to do is go to my thread on the age of the 52 Hawaiian Islands. The island of Midway is 27.7 million years old and the youngist of the 52 islands is the Big island only half a million years old. The glaciers on top of Greenland have been cored and found to be over 110,000 years old, the Himalayas are 40 to 50 million years old, the Alps are about 50 to 60 million years old and our Rockies are upwards of 100 million years old.

When a person fully understand the scientific age of the earth then they are not so prone to get hung up on myths and legends of a young biblical creation. Arlan