Do atheists think that evolution theory proves that there is no God?

[rocketman]

Originally Posted by Bishadi

Do atheist think that evolution theory proves that there is no God?

I think many atheists do, at least in part. Let's be honest, large numbers of people cite evolution as one reason for not believing in a creator. I've heard it said many times: "There is no creator. We came from monkeys(sic), so there...." and so on. It's one thing to say I don't believe, but it's something else again to offer a reason as proof.

The doyen of evolution-as-a-popular-philosophy summed it up best:

"...although atheism might have been logically tenable before Darwin, Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist."

-Richard Dawkins; The Blind Watchmaker.

Originally Posted by Bishadi

Are there any here who actually believe in creation as magic from God (Allah/Krsna/Osirus/Zeus) or what ever book ye be readin?

Everyone believes in some kind of 'magic', whether it's a created universe or one that (inexplicably) has always been there. Think about it.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by Fluffy

*natural in this post means non-divine.

If I may ask, what does "divine" mean (in this post)?

Originally Posted by Fluffy

Psychologically speaking, we do not believe things because they are true but because we have been conditioned to believe them.

Maybe it's just me, but I believe the opposite. We believe in things because they are determined true --we do not believe in a thing if we find it to be false. Once it is determined "false" belief turns to disbelief.

[Fluffy]

Originally Posted by Willamena

If I may ask, what does "divine" mean (in this post)?

An act of God.

Originally Posted by Willamena

Maybe it's just me, but I believe the opposite. We believe in things because they are determined true --we do not believe in a thing if we find it to be false. Once it is determined "false" belief turns to disbelief.

I disagree for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I think that "determined to be true" is too vague. When is something determined to be true? It can't be when you have accepted its truth because then "We believe in things because they are determined true" is the same as saying "We believe in things when we accept their truth" which is trivial. On the other hand, it can't be when a belief is measured against a standard apart from yourself because then there is no guarantee that the standard is actually measuring truth. For example, plenty of people will say that one way of determining something to be true is if it can be found in scripture. Other people say that its whatever the pixie on their shoulder tells them. More still will tell you that science or reason has the answers. And whilst all these situations are very different, what they all have in common is a claim of a mechanism of truth without a clear explanation of how that mechanism works. So "We believe in things because they are determined true" would mean "We believe in things because we believe them to be true" which, again, is trivial.

Secondly, once we accept that beliefs are as much of an agent as we are (memetics), it becomes apparent that there is only one attribute that matters, survivability, and that only the humans and the beliefs that have that trait are the ones who will dominate. Is truth the same as survivability? No because there are thousands of religions most of which are mutually exclusive (and so clearly can't all be true) and therefore are very survivable without being true. It is not just religion either. Look back to when everyone knew that Newton was right. Look back to the 60s when everyone assumed that no other object than the sun could possibly emit radio waves that would reach the earth.

[xmakina]

Personally, although agnostic, I don't quite get why this has to be a point of contention.

if you will, surely evolution could be argued as Proof God exists. Look at evolution as a process. It's so incredibly simple and yet can create vast and inspiring complexities. From the amoeba, to the human, to the elephant, to the blue whale. All these came from the most simple of principles. "Do what works." is pretty much evolution. it is the ultimate in engineering. Everything has been stripped away until all that is left is one simple mantra. And that created everything we see in nature.


How that Isn't an argument in some small way for an increibly powerful being is beyond me.

[crystalonyx]

Originally Posted by Willamena

If I may ask, what does "divine" mean (in this post)?


Maybe it's just me, but I believe the opposite. We believe in things because they are determined true --we do not believe in a thing if we find it to be false. Once it is determined "false" belief turns to disbelief.

The existence of of the supposed Jesus cannot be detemined historically to be true, yet there are boatloads of people that believe in this mythical man. I think belief and truth are separate entities.

[Dirty Penguin]

Originally Posted by Bishadi

That's a good question many might wish to discuss.

Why would any theist think that evolution is a tool to discount the idea of God?

I'm not sure. Aren't there plenty of scientist out there who are theists? I'm not sure why certain religious groups feel that people who support evolutionary theories must be out to prove a god does not exist.

Originally Posted by Bishadi

Why would not believing in a God as the religions keep trying to describe; have anything to do with evolution?

Again, not sure. I was an atheist before I actually understood what the theory of evolution was all about.

Originally Posted by Bishadi

That no man was actually 'created' from dust and "poof" they became a man and then "poof" a rib was ribbed out and then a women was born?

Nope!

Originally Posted by Bishadi

Are there any here who actually believe in creation as magic from God (Allah/Krsna/Osirus/Zeus) or what ever book ye be readin?

I don't believe in gods so I guess that would be a....No...

[Bishadi]

Originally Posted by logician

One problem here is defining exactly what "creation" means. Is it creating something (the universe or multiverse) from nothing, or is it merely creating order out of chaos i.e. "causing" matter to come to a singularity to explode in the big bang. Big differences there.

you created an idea; and to know what an idea is within the mind, physically as in physiologically; then find it was 'light'...

an idea is what mankind can create.

and in the beginning; there was light..

the quesiton I see within that suggests

'it depends on if you believe man or God?'

well mankind 'created' all definitions of God.

every word, every sound, every symbol, that is used to define God was created by people.

God is all of existence; nature does not fib, man does!

Keeping an eye on the truth offers each to know God, personally... not theoretically.

Heck if you all know the name of God, then you have the math to back it up.

[painted wolf]

I don't know about all athiests but the ones I know have plenty of other reasons for not believing in God.

As a thiest I have no problem with evolution. I'm rather fond of it and as my career as a scientist develops I plan on devoting more of my time to it's study.

wa:do