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  #111  
Old 07-23-2008, 11:11 AM
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  #112  
Old 07-23-2008, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Storm View Post
Really? Prove it. Please cite the evidence that there is no God guiding evolution.

No, that's your opinion, unsupported by the evidence, and biased by your preexisting worldview, atheism.
THe onus is on you to prove that a supposed god guides evolution, but first you must prove it exists. Therefore, you have 2 proofs to provide.

I won't hold my breath.
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  #113  
Old 07-23-2008, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by crystalonyx View Post
THe onus is on you to prove that a supposed god guides evolution, but first you must prove it exists. Therefore, you have 2 proofs to provide.

I won't hold my breath.
So, what your are saying is, you can say anything is proven false. But when asked for proof, you reply with "please prove it true first" otherwise it must, by default, be false. Is that your logic (or lack there of)?
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  #114  
Old 07-23-2008, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by crystalonyx View Post
THe onus is on you to prove that a supposed god guides evolution, but first you must prove it exists. Therefore, you have 2 proofs to provide.

I won't hold my breath.
Ah, no, you made the assertion, and thus took up the BoP. I have not claimed a fact, merely challenged your assertion of one.

Shifting the burden might work on beginners, but I won't fall for it.
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  #115  
Old 07-23-2008, 11:56 AM
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Evolution was the first topic that made me question religion. I have read an unbelievable amount of books on the topic of evolution, and I am in the process of a MS in Microbiology.

I read every page of the Bible, front to back...then I decided that god wasn't real.

Evolution wasn't really the primary cause, just one of the MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY pieces of the puzzle.
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  #116  
Old 07-23-2008, 11:57 AM
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See, that's reasonable.

Out of curiosity, did you ascribe to YEC or something similar?
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  #117  
Old 07-23-2008, 12:10 PM
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Nothing wrong with Dawkins saying that, but is it scientific? If 'God' is wholly dependent on young-earth dogma then maybe it is.
Are there any other areas of thought where, at the time, God was accepted as the best answer to the questions at hand?

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Which leads to me to your second sentence, and you know, before evolution there was old-earth geology, so evolution was not the beginning of this.
Yes, but these generally traced themselves back to God. Lamarck and others recognized the variation in life over time, but didn't translate this into the idea of speciation through natural selection. The main mechanism suggested to account for the history of life was the hand of God in one form or another.

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In fact, it was very popular before Darwin to believe in an old earth and the bible, but with the advent of evolution it became popular to denigrate bible believers as 'flat earthers' and so partly gave rise to the very modern reaction we now know as 'creationism', especially the young earth kind.
I don't agree that creationism is a modern phenomenon.

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Like it or not, atheists early enthusiasm about evolution partly helped create the conflict, unlike the earlier old-earth geologists who weren't so militant. Bottom line? Many atheists do think that evolution disproves God (although not necessarily in a scientific way) and have long been keen to mention evolution and dieties in the same breath (or book chapter). This kind of thing is a comfort to a great many people who don't want religion to be true, just as religion is a comfort to many who don't want death to be the end etc.
Which atheists think that evolution disproves God?

If something is disproven but not in a scientific way, then it's not actually disproven.

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I'm sorry, but I don't understand this sentence. Are you talking about theories regarding the evolution of religion?
Chock that up to a brain fart on my part. Here's what I meant to say:

Evolution introduced the idea that explanations for the history of life that did not explicitly invoke God could be acceptable.
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  #118  
Old 07-23-2008, 12:14 PM
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Really? Prove it. Please cite the evidence that there is no God guiding evolution.
That would be hard to do.

It would be much easier to present some evidence (note: not proof, but evidence) that no God is guiding evolution to create creatures like us... though I know that's not what you asked for.
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  #119  
Old 07-23-2008, 12:17 PM
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