Why Isn't Evolution A Problem For Most European Christians? (moral, Darwin)

[Sunstone]

Is part of it that Europeans tend to be better educated than Americans -- especially when it comes to science and mathematics?

[Alceste]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Is part of it that Europeans tend to be better educated than Americans -- especially when it comes to science and mathematics?

Yes.

Also, being educated and reading and being literate and such like is perceived as "cool" over here. In the US "cool" it's more about sneakers and handbags. Generally speaking.

[crystalonyx]

Originally Posted by Alceste

Yes.

Also, being educated and reading and being literate and such like is perceived as "cool" over here. In the US "cool" it's more about sneakers and handbags. Generally speaking.

I believe the "rebellion" against education in the U.S. stems largely from our attitude towards it. IN many European countries, a college education is paid for, in the U.S. it costs a fortune, almost to the point now it's a priviledge for the well-to-do only. In other words, we don't really support higher education that much. There is also the underlying suspicion some religions have towards increasing "knowledge", which may lead people away from belief in their god.

[Alceste]

Originally Posted by crystalonyx

I believe the "rebellion" against education in the U.S. stems largely from our attitude towards it. IN many European countries, a college education is paid for, in the U.S. it costs a fortune, almost to the point now it's a priviledge for the well-to-do only. In other words, we don't really support higher education that much. There is also the underlying suspicion some religions have towards increasing "knowledge", which may lead people away from belief in their god.

That's a very good point. Canada and the UK are similar - education is mainly for the middle class (which fortunately includes most Canadians). Not everyone can afford it, so it's not universally "cool", whereas in Ireland, where university level education is "free" the main considerations are personal interest and academic ability rather than social class. Higher education is so standard there "coolness" doesn't even come into it.

[kai]

Originally Posted by Alceste

Yes.

Also, being educated and reading and being literate and such like is perceived as "cool" over here. In the US "cool" it's more about sneakers and handbags. Generally speaking.

where i come from theres nothing cool about education! trainers and spinning your car 360 degrees now thats cool,
and they don't let science and religion collide because the churches are empty,and know one really bothers,
the general rule is don't talk about religion or politics, science well thats for scientists.

[Draka]

Originally Posted by Tau

I totally concur with this post.
That is something which I have never truly understood about the US.

Believe me, it's something many of us Americans don't even understand.

As a country we have our priorities all turned around. What else can you say for a country that prizes hot cars over being able to speak the English language properly or can balance your own checkbook without going into debt? Why we are more concerned with going to war over WMDs that don't exist and throwing billions into that war, when we have our own hidden epidemic of homeless and illiterate on the streets behind dumpsters and hidden in alleys? And back on topic...why so many churches and fundamental Christians find it is more important to deny our students a real education in the building processes of life just to maintain their own short-sighted idea of what they believe?

Why, in a country that is suppose to be a "leader of the free world", does religious idea have more pull than good old fashioned common sense and education?

[misanthropic_clown]

I think that it stems from the rise and popularity of creation science in America. I don't think that Europe was won over by it in such a huge way that America did. We didn't let it out of religious education classrooms (much), advocated evolution in our science classrooms and so creation science did not perpetuate. That attitude is now reinforced within European law, claiming that advocating creationism in school as science is tantamount to breaking civil liberties.

Since so many Americans still consider ID and evolution on a par in terms of scientific viability, it is no surprise it still lingers within the classroom and is the popular opinion of many. It will never be resolved until the US achieves the levels of secularism we achieved quite some time ago, and leaves science alone to be appreciated for the masterful thing it is.

As far as education culture goes, even though I have to pay for my education here in England, I get a special loan at a low interest rate for the course and for accommodation costs. I also receive government grants to subsidise myself. Still, after medical school (5 years) I will have surplus of £30,000 of debt. The repayment scheme is carefully considered so that repayments are only made at a level comfortable to the person once they have graduated(/failed and given up). It also doesn't count as debt in the sense that banks won't hold it against you when considering you for credit or a mortgage.

It used to be free. To get into university you had to pass high academic standards to get a place, and the government would look after you. The wonderful sentiment of 'it is your brain that counts, and not your wallet'. But the English government decided that the more people who go to university the better. Academic standards were lowered for entry, the surplus of people who then went to university led to a vast increase in the creation and uptake of valueless degrees which have little or no economic value, and a greater number of people taking reasonable degrees, resultantly devaluing them. Thus it became economically unsound to continue investing in university education to the extent it once had. Rather than go back on their policy about more people going to university and allowing degrees to regain value, and reduce the uptake of useless degrees [too elitist-looking for the liberal government] it simply elects to phase out of footing the bill. However, because of the current 'soft' debt system (wherein if you fail to come above a certain income threshold, you simply do not pay anyway) there is still a huge uptake on crappy and good but devalued degrees. This can only inevitably lead to the point where the soft debt system becomes non viable, people will have to get higher interest loans and thus people will have to bleed through the nose for their higher education. Thus we will end up with a system where it is what is in your pocket, not your brain, which will get you a degree.

[/rant]

[Lucian]

Interesting from a Finnish point of view. I've never seen evolution as a problem. I don't even understand why it should be. Though I can confirm that people who have that problem exist here, but from how I see it the influence seems to come from America and they seem to have very much American influence in other ways too (I personally dislike the influence a lot but there's not much you can do about it). They are Pentecostals, Charismatics and such. In congregations, business suits are usually a good warning sign. I guess it also seems strange to me since in the tradition which I belong to understanding is regarded as valuable.

[Panda]

Originally Posted by Alceste

That's a very good point. Canada and the UK are similar - education is mainly for the middle class (which fortunately includes most Canadians). Not everyone can afford it, so it's not universally "cool", whereas in Ireland, where university level education is "free" the main considerations are personal interest and academic ability rather than social class. Higher education is so standard there "coolness" doesn't even come into it.

Um Higher Education is free in Scotland. All our tuition fees are paid by the Government and we only have to pay living costs.