What's with the "-ist"? (Darwin, evolution, doctrine, church)

[Alceste]

The terms "evolutionist" and "Darwinist" seem to be bandied about in here quite freely. If I accept that the theory of relativity somewhat accurately describes the structure of space time, does that make me an "Einsteinist?" (heh, or a "relativist"?) Am I a Newtonist for accepting the concept of gravity?

I would argue that believing in a specific religious doctrine that happens to be at odds with all the empirical evidence merits an "-ist" suffix, but "Darwinist" is a ridiculous concept. Darwin's theory of natural selection doesn't require "belief" in any specific doctrine. That's why it is called a "theory". Also, being science, it is very flexible and accommodating to the findings of other scientists Attributing the whole of our empirical understanding of the world we live in to Darwin is insulting to hard working biologists and geologists.

Any thoughts?

[misanthropic_clown]

I just think it is a good shorthand. I'd rather say someone is Darwinist than "advocates Darwinian evolution". You might be reading into it a little too much.

[Don Penguinoini]

Interesting, but semantics is endless. Clown summed it up nice

[Alceste]

Originally Posted by misanthropic_clown

I just think it is a good shorthand. I'd rather say someone is Darwinist than "advocates Darwinian evolution". You might be reading into it a little too much.

Fair enough, although the vast majority of "Darwinists" spend little time advocating evolution, less time contemplating Darwin, and no time reading "Origin of Species". It seems it's shorthand for "people who prefer public education to be free of religious dogma". Is there a word for "advocates the separation of church and state"?

[Don Penguinoini]

Secularism? Im not familiar with political terms.. Its probably wrong

[Draka]

I have to kind of agree with the use of the term "evolutionist". Since it is an accepted scientific theory one shouldn't have to claim that they are an evolutionist. Might as well say you are a gravitist, relativist, or even and E=MCsquarist.

[Don Penguinoini]

Originally Posted by Draka

I have to kind of agree with the use of the term "evolutionist". Since it is an accepted scientific theory one shouldn't have to claim that they are an evolutionist. Might as well say you are a gravitist, relativist, or even and E=MCsquarist.

I disagree, then the term atheist should not exist. Since god has not been proven.

[Alceste]

Originally Posted by Don Penguinoini

Secularism? Im not familiar with political terms.. Its probably wrong

Yes! You've nailed it! Secularism. It's even got an entry in Wikipedia with a picture of some noble looking intellectual. (You can tell he is a Deep Thinker because of the disheveled beard). Frubals.

There's an ism I'm fully willing to embrace. I'm even willing to acknowledge it's a "belief". If creationists could begin to use this term instead of "evolutionist" it would refocus the entire discussion onto more even footing, imo.

Now that I think of it, the correct word for "evolutionist" is actually "biologist", but perhaps that is another discussion.

[misanthropic_clown]

Originally Posted by Draka

I have to kind of agree with the use of the term "evolutionist". Since it is an accepted scientific theory one shouldn't have to claim that they are an evolutionist. Might as well say you are a gravitist, relativist, or even and E=MCsquarist.

Well, I would say that when something becomes the belief of the vast (vast) majority, it is not often discussed in the contentious format that requires people to take sides on it. I think you'd be lucky to find many people who don't believe in gravity, so one would never usually have to define oneself as gravitist in normal discussion. Gravitist status is assumed, and so unmentioned.

As far as evolution goes, even if it is scientific fact, it is not necessarily the belief of the vast majority, and so it is something that is discussed in a contentious format, and people are required to take sides on it. Thus you are likely to come across people whom you have to distinguish yourself from (creationists), people won't necessarily assume you are evolutionist.

It's not a matter of being right, it's just a matter of if it is contended enough to require yourself to have the label to show what side you are on.