Panspermia and the Bible (Jesus, Darwin, Earth, Eden, creation)

[idea]

Not creationism, not Darwinism, option #3 - so I do not know if it really fits in this forum or not... It is related to origins theology in any event...

Panspermai -
The simplest solution is that of the immortal intelligence – in which an origin does not need to be found because the ultimate origin does not exist. That matter, energy, and life are self-existent and eternal with no end and no beginning – the entire “origins” debate is pointless. There is no origin.

you do not get something from nothing. Look around - something exists, has always existed, and will always exist. Changing from one form to another, but eternally existent. Matter, energy, and life (our spirits) are eternally existent.

Louis Pasteur :
I have been looking for spontaneous generation during twenty years without discovering it. No, I do not judge it impossible.... You place matter before life, and you decide that matter has existed for all eternity. How do you know that the incessant progress of science will not compel scientists... to consider that life has existed during eternity and not matter?

From http://panspermia.org/thebegin.htm
Main page here: http://panspermia.org/
For anyone who is tired of hearing about origins theories.

[idea]

can anyone post a Bible verse that clearly states that in the beginning there was absolutely nothing? Something that states that God was surrounded by a void of nothingness?

Does the bible teach that God made everything? I do not think that it does.
John 1:
1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Does not say God and Jesus were alone, nor does it say they created everything -
“That was made” – IF it was made, He made it. However, some things are not made…

God did not create everything. God did not create Himself. God did not create evil. He is all powerful – what He is surrounded by He can control, but there is no need that He created it from nothing… He is forming, organizing, reforming… If He created it there would be no need for reform. No evil, no lost souls.

Isaiah 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

The potter did not make the clay – he only forms what already exists…

Does it say God created man from nothing? It does not –
Gen 2:
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Formed – is different than created from nothingness – formed, organized, changed what was already there… then “breathed” life into Adam, not created, breathed it in, placed it in….

There are actually 2 different accounts of the creation in Gen, Chapter 1 gives one account, chapter 2 gives another account in which the creative days are given a different order. Here is chapter 2, in which Adam is created (7) before the garden of Eden (vs 8). Atheists use this as one example where the Bible contradicts itself. I see it as describing two different creative periods, one in heaven “the generations of the heavens” and one on earth - seems pretty clear that chapter 2 is discussing formation/organization in heaven, before spirits were placed in the Earth… see vs 5. … first He forms Adam’s spirit, then He places the spirit in a formed body in Eden…

4 ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Our birth was not our beginning…
Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

We existed before the foundation of the world.
Eph 1: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Job 38: 4 Where wast thou…
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
We are sons and daughters of God –
Psa 82: 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
we were there – we shouted for joy.

Ecc 12: 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

“return” means coming to a state that we have previously been to – not “come” as if it were our first experience, but “return”

Zech 12:1 …the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

He “formed” our spirit before He placed us here on Earth. We call him our “Heavenly” Father because He is literally the father of our spirit… spirit not created from nothingness, formed out of intelligences that God found Himself surrounded by.

Coming to terms with “God did not create everything” absolves God from any blame for the mess we see around us (granted He respects our Free will)

Free will – can only exist if it is not created – robots and puppets are created. It is only real free will if it is self-existent and not created.

Thoughts on immortal intelligence – that our spirits are eternal, no end, no beginning, God is not responsible for making us but is selflessly helping those who wish to be helped achieve a higher state of being… (LDS theology)

[Father Heathen]

Interesting thought, actually.

[idea]

Originally Posted by Father Heathen

Interesting thought, actually.

Hope you ponder it a bit It is why I have converted to the Mormon church.

[logician]

The only things immortal are matter and energy.

[idea]

Originally Posted by logician

The only things immortal are matter and energy.

Free will can only be immortal (if it is created, it is a robot, a puppet, it is not free will). I have free will, and so I know my spirit is immortal.

[Seyorni]

Originally Posted by logician

The only things immortal are matter and energy.

And even so in a qualified sense only, inasmuch a they can be converted back and forth, in a way, dying each transition.

[crystalonyx]

Originally Posted by Seyorni

And even so in a qualified sense only, inasmuch a they can be converted back and forth, in a way, dying each transition.

I suppose one would have to take it back the the most elementary particles to find anything "immortal". Gravitation might also be immortal.

[Halcyon]

My understanding of Panspermia doesn't involve an immortal or divine originator, just that life seeds itself throughout the universe, somehow.

(puts nerd hat on)

Like in Star Trek there was an ancient humanoid race that seeded life on many planets billions of years ago, hence why most aliens in Star Trek look pretty much like humans.

(tries to remove nerd hat but finds that it is stuck)