Panspermia and the Bible (Jesus, Darwin, Earth, Eden, creation)

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by idea

Either you have free will or you do not. What you have described is not free will - an athiest friend debated with me if we have free will or not - he said do not let the number of choices make you think you actually have a choice, that everything I do is controlled by genetics and environment, that eventually science will be able to predict the actions of people as they can predict the motions of the planets. I tend to agree with Frankl, that it does not matter who your parents are or what your surroundings are, we all have the capactiy to choose our thoughts and attitude. I am willing to take responsibility for myself and who I am, I am not a victim, do not need to blame everything I do on nature... I guess some people are not willing to take that step.

I think you misunderstand my position, just because I believe that I am a product of my environment, my upbringing etc, I do not blame nature or my environment for my mistakes - I understand that if I do something unethical then it is I who am to blame. However, I see no need for free will to have a supernatural origin in order for me to process a decision and take the blame for it if it is a bad one.

Where do you think free will comes from if not the biological make-up of our brains?

[idea]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

I think you misunderstand my position, just because I believe that I am a product of my environment, my upbringing etc, I do not blame nature or my environment for my mistakes - I understand that if I do something unethical then it is I who am to blame. However, I see no need for free will to have a supernatural origin in order for me to process a decision and take the blame for it if it is a bad one.

Where do you think free will comes from if not the biological make-up of our brains?

I do not like the term "supernatural" there is nothing supernatural about the eternal nature of matter of energy, nothing "supernatural" about life either. I cannot understand how free will can exist without being eternal - if you are created, then whatever/whoever created you controls all of your actions, everything you do could be traced back to your creation cause/effect chain just dominos waiting to be tipped over but everything set up in advance by someone/something other than you... there is more than just cause/effect.

Perhaps I think rather differently than others, I suppose we all think differently, for me eternal existence clears everything up. It explains where we are from, that we do have agency, it explains God (eternally existent life is a life that is advanced) it clears God’s name of creating anything imperfectly and instead makes Him into a Loving selfless being who is adopting and helping us. Eternal existence gives life Meaning and Purpose – no dead ends, that we have the potential for eternal progression… It makes life precious – that life is not just some short lived anomaly, instead life – sharing in the life of others – is a treasure that rust and moths cannot destroy. The beauty of eternal life, and being able to change into what we choose…

[camanintx]

Originally Posted by idea

there is no "cause"
is there something that "causes" matter to exist? something that "causes" energy to exist? something that "causes" any of it to exist? It simply exists - eternally, with no beginning, and no cause. there is no "cause"

why don't you tell me - what was the first cause? and what caused the first cause? I would be interested to hear your answer.

We have no way of knowing what the first cause might be or even that there was a first cause. I'm just trying to figure out why you need God to explain a universe consisting of matter and energy that has existed eternally.

[idea]

Originally Posted by camanintx

We have no way of knowing what the first cause might be or even that there was a first cause. I'm just trying to figure out why you need God to explain a universe consisting of matter and energy that has existed eternally.

Thanks for the link. I am not trying to explain the universe with God. The point of God for me is not as a "creaetor" but more of an "organizer". that He is not responsible for creating the universe in the farthest meaning of create - I think He can organize / change things to such an extent that you can pretty much say He created them. but we have a choice in being "organized", that part of it we have to do for ourself... He cannot force us to be loving creatures as an example, love has to come from within or it is not love.

The point is not to see God as a dictator, but a being who respects our agency, .. perhaps like any parent, tries to "encourage" and teach us the best that He can - does everything possible to make us into better people - everything possible except take away our free agency. (contradiction, you can't take away free agency and force someone to be perfect, ultimate perfection requires you have free agency) for me it was a different way of looking at who God is.

I need God to inspire and show me how to become something better than I am now.