Panspermia and the Bible (Jesus, Darwin, Earth, Eden, creation)

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by idea

It was not nothing - it was just without form. Do you agree? God did not create everything - so don't blame Him for all the problems around us?

(Lovecraft fan?)

I don't believe in a creator God, but it says right there that God created the earth and the heavens, not shaped, but created. I think that implies creation ex nihilo.

Yeah I'm a lovecraft fan.

[idea]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

I don't believe in a creator God, but it says right there that God created the earth and the heavens, not shaped, but created. I think that implies creation ex nihilo.

Yeah I'm a lovecraft fan.

Gen 1:1 - if you look at the original Heb, the word is closer to shaped, fashoned, formed than "created".

In any event -
Here is a Lovecraft site - my brother in law's art:
Cthulhu and H.P. Lovecraft Mythos : The Artwork of K.L. Turner : CafePress.com
click on LHS for all of his current stuff.
enjoy!

[camanintx]

Originally Posted by idea

Gen 1:1 - if you look at the original Heb, the word is closer to shaped, fashoned, formed than "created".

So if God only formed the heavens and the earth, then whatever God formed them from existed prior to God creating the universe?

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by idea

In any event -
Here is a Lovecraft site - my brother in law's art:
Cthulhu and H.P. Lovecraft Mythos : The Artwork of K.L. Turner : CafePress.com
click on LHS for all of his current stuff.
enjoy!

They are so cool!

[idea]

Originally Posted by camanintx

So if God only formed the heavens and the earth, then whatever God formed them from existed prior to God creating the universe?

That is correct if it exists, it eternally exists, with no beginning and no end - you do not get something from nothing, you can only change the form of what already exists.

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by idea

That is correct if it exists, it eternally exists, with no beginning and no end - you do not get something from nothing, you can only change the form of what already exists.

I know a little about LDS cosmology, but I still don't quite understand the intricacies.

The universe has always existed, it was only shaped by God, right?
God himself was once a man who achieved Godhood, right? And He at one time had his own God, who was himself once a man etc etc, right?

Where did it all begin, what created the first man who became the first God?

[Tau]

Originally Posted by logician

The only things immortal are matter and energy.

Indeed logician.

Listen to logician...

[idea]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

I know a little about LDS cosmology, but I still don't quite understand the intricacies.

The universe has always existed, it was only shaped by God, right?

right

God himself was once a man who achieved Godhood, right? And He at one time had his own God, who was himself once a man etc etc, right?

speculation - I am not sure. Snow once said "As man is God once was, as God is man can become" but it is not scripture, not doctrine.

We teach the doctrine of "eternal progression" meaning that there is no upper bound to how much you can love, how much glory you can achieve etc. This may also apply to God - I think He is still progressing, that is what life does - progress - if it is not growing, it is not really alive, and God is alive... but I am unsure that He was ever the equiv of what we are now... I think He has always been much greater than we are - from the King Follett sermon:

"God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with Himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them in the world of spirits. "

There is a better script - can't find it right now - that states that Jesus grew and increased in knowledge and wisdom - here is the cloesest I can find right now...

Isaiah 53:
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

vs 3 included to show this is talking about Jesus


thought of a few more scripts -the ones that talk about us being changed - there are quite a few of these - that say you will get a new heart, etc. etc... that is the point, that we are changed - not created - changed.

1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Where did it all begin, what created the first man who became the first God?

there is no beginning - not the egg or the chicken - there is no first... right now we experience time, I am not sure that time will always be in the picture though...

Alma 40:8 Now whether there is more than one time appointed for men to rise it mattereth not; for all do not die at once, and this mattereth not; all is as one day with God, and time only is measured unto men.

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by idea

there is no beginning - not the egg or the chicken - there is no first... right now we experience time, I am not sure that time will always be in the picture though...

So you don't accept the Big Bang Theory?