Speciation? (Darwin, evolution, science, Article)

[Blentyn chan Celi]

Are there any scientific experiments that produced a new species?
This is an interesting article, but the only examples given are hard to follow and don’t really sound like they were conclusive.
Any ideas?

[doppelgänger]

They are on the cusp of it: FOXNews.com - Report: Scientists Create New Life Form in Lab - Science News | Science & Technology | Technology News

Assuming of course there isn't some bio-engineered microbial weapon under wraps already someplace.

[Sunstone]

Penguino is a new life form, isn't he?

[Blentyn chan Celi]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

They are on the cusp of it: FOXNews.com - Report: Scientists Create New Life Form in Lab - Science News | Science & Technology | Technology News

Assuming of course there isn't some bio-engineered microbial weapon under wraps already someplace.

I mean through selective breeding.

[rojse]

Firstly, how do you want to define the word species?

I would start with the rough definition as two different animals that cannot breed together, for one reason or another. There are examples that refute this (think horse and donkey, for example) but that is a good beginning.

From the masterful wikipedia, I find this passage to be worth reading:

"One of the first to carry out a controlled evolution experiment was William Dallinger. In the late 19th century, he cultivated small unicellular organismsin a custom-built incubator over a time period of seven years (1880-1886). Dallinger slowly increased the temperature of the incubator from an initial 60 °F up to 158 °F. The early cultures had shown clear signs of distress at a temperature of 73 °F, and were certainly not capable of surviving at 158 °F. The organisms Dallinger had in his incubator at the end of the experiment, on the other hand, were perfectly fine at 158 °F. However, these organisms would not grow anymore at the initial 60 °F. Dallinger concluded that he had clearly found evidence for Darwinian adaptation in his incubator, and that the organisms had adapted to live in a high-temperature environment."

Experimental evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Blentyn chan Celi]

Originally Posted by rojse

Firstly, how do you want to define the word species?

I would start with the rough definition as two different animals that cannot breed together, for one reason or another. There are examples that refute this (think horse and donkey, for example) but that is a good beginning.

From the masterful wikipedia, I find this passage to be worth reading:

"One ... environment."

Experimental evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That was interesting, but I am looking for a case where a distinct new species was derived from a distinct old species. I’m not too clear on what could be considered the point of divergence. Maybe someone can point that out too.

[rojse]

Originally Posted by Blentyn chan Celi

That was interesting, but I am looking for a case where a distinct new species was derived from a distinct old species. I’m not too clear on what could be considered the point of divergence. Maybe someone can point that out too.

Surely two animals that cannot breed together would be considered to have diverged?

[rojse]

I posted this in the "Expelled" thread a few moments ago, and it answers your question here, too.

Originally Posted by rojse

It has happened, and we have proved it as conclusively as we can for a scientific hypothesis. We have done it ourselves, and nature has done it in full view of our monitorings.

I think an excellent example is the numerous types of dogs. Sure, there is interbreeding between different types of dogs, to some extent, but the differences between a poodle and a great dane are so large that I would consider them completely separate species. They cannot breed together, they have different builds, shape, and size. Or consider the daschund and the greyhound. One is a long, thin dog, the other built entirely for racing.

In what way do you not see dogs as an example of evolution? (although it is controlled by people, it is still considered evolution, because the process of selection for the next generation is at work).

For a more natural example, what about viruses? Every time you catch the cold virus, you don't get the same virus. You have a slightly different virus, which is able to get past the defenses your body has generated. Your body builds an immunity to it, and you will be free of it until you get a new cold.

It doesn't stop there. Some viruses build up immunities to the medicines we use to kill them. I would suggest you do some research on superbugs. These are viruses that are immune to some types of medicines, and we need to develop new medicines to kill them.

I would consider all of these to be excellent examples of evolution in action.

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by Blentyn chan Celi

That was interesting, but I am looking for a case where a distinct new species was derived from a distinct old species. I’m not too clear on what could be considered the point of divergence. Maybe someone can point that out too.

Sure. There are lots of them. Many of our domesticated animals and food crops are new species derived from old species through selective breeding. The naturally occurring predicate for what is now "corn" is radically different from its nearest undomesticated forerunners. Same with beans, appl