Speciation? (Darwin, evolution, science, Article)

[camanintx]

Originally Posted by Blentyn chan Celi

So, we have a consensus that a species is hard to define. I suppose this will pose a problem for the remainder of this discussion because you may cite an experiment where speciation was observed, but I can claim that the two are still one species. With that said, I would like to see them anyway. I am more interested in learning about the theory than arguing about it.

Here is an article that lists several observed cases of speciation.

Observed Instances of Speciation

[Blentyn chan Celi]

Originally Posted by camanintx

Here is an article that lists several observed cases of speciation.

Observed Instances of Speciation

Thanks, but I cited that article in the original post.
Got any more?

[Blentyn chan Celi]

Originally Posted by rojse

Even though there is some disagreement about the dogs, have you had a look about what I said about viruses? That's a textbook example of evolution.

Aside from that, whenever you hear the phrase "x became resistant to y," that is evolution in action, just shortened for simpler discussion. For example, pests that become resistant to poisons is because the initial bugs that survived the poison were able to breed, and pass their genes on to the next generation. The weeds that could survive spraying were able to spread their seed, while their otherwise identical counterparts died off in the spraying.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I’m not sure viruses are a good example of speciation. First of all, they are not living organisms, so any patterns found in their mutation may or may not apply to living organisms. Second, the real question here is whether life can increase in complexity. When viruses mutate, they are not any more or less complex. They are just different.

I definitely agree with most of the theory involved in survival of the fittest, or micro evolution, or whatever you want to call it. What I am looking for is an example of an organism developing into another, more complex organism. In order for this to happen, DNA information must be added, not just changed.

[camanintx]

Originally Posted by Blentyn chan Celi

Correct me if I am wrong, but I’m not sure viruses are a good example of speciation. First of all, they are not living organisms, so any patterns found in their mutation may or may not apply to living organisms.

What exactly is your criteria for "living organisms" and why doesn't a virus meet this?

[Blentyn chan Celi]

Originally Posted by camanintx

What exactly is your criteria for "living organisms" and why doesn't a virus meet this?

I don’t want to diverge here, but as I have been taught, a virus is a noncellular infectious particle that consists mainly of DNA or RNA. It cannot reproduce itself and is thus nonliving.

[rojse]

Originally Posted by Blentyn chan Celi

I don’t want to diverge here, but as I have been taught, a virus is a noncellular infectious particle that consists mainly of DNA or RNA. It cannot reproduce itself and is thus nonliving.

A mule cannot reproduce.

[Blentyn chan Celi]

Originally Posted by rojse

A mule cannot reproduce.

Wow…

If a virus is cultured in a solution that does not contain living cells that the virus can infect, the virus will not be able to reproduce. As far as I can find, it will not die either. It will simply exist. This is because a virus, having none of its own, needs the machinery of a living cell to reproduce its genetic information.

I’m sure you know why a mule can’t reproduce.

[rojse]

Originally Posted by Blentyn chan Celi

Wow…

If a virus is cultured in a solution that does not contain living cells that the virus can infect, the virus will not be able to reproduce. As far as I can find, it will not die either. It will simply exist. This is because a virus, having none of its own, needs the machinery of a living cell to reproduce its genetic information.

I’m sure you know why a mule can’t reproduce.

Is a tapeworm alive? It needs a host to reproduce.

[Blentyn chan Celi]

Originally Posted by rojse

Is a tapeworm alive? It needs a host to reproduce.

I can see this getting out of hand fast.