Does ID/Creationism Teach People Sloppy Habits of Reasoning? (bible)

[Random]

Only a person already convinced that sloppy reasoning teaches people ID/Creationism would ask the OP question. That being the case, where cometh a meaningful answer?

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by Random

Only a person already convinced that sloppy reasoning teaches people ID/Creationism would ask the OP question. That being the case, where cometh a meaningful answer?

Could you elaborate on how you arrive at that conclusion, Conor?

[Sola'lor]

Originally Posted by Mestemia

What data?

The data about the universe in which we live.

[rojse]

Originally Posted by Captain Civic

Indeed.

But someone can take in all the information and still disagree. That doesn't make him right, but he can disagree.

Some of the objections mentioned on here towards evolution show a complete misunderstanding towards the idea of evolution. I have heard objections to it based on them disbelieving in the Big Bang, or that life could have started from chemicals, and other objections that have nothing to do with evolution whatsoever.

If you have at least read about the theory of evolution (or any other theory for that matter), and still disagree with it, that is fine in this case. If you have tried and failed to understand it, that is fine, too. Although I might disagree with your conclusions, I can respect that you have at least made some attempt to understand it. But if you don't even read the theory, try to understand the basic mechanics from someone who supports it, or something like that, then the ignorance is wilful, in that you have not even tried to make an attempt to understand it.

[Soldano16]

Originally Posted by Sola'lor

No. It just shows that there is more than one way to interpret data.

Not if you properly use scientific methodology.

Of course there are many ways to interpret data. But most of those are based on hugely unscientific methodologies althought their users often pretend it to be otherwise.

It's not as if ID/creationism are taught at any of the world's top universities. They may be taught at some schools but all the world's leading schools refuse to accept as real science the "science" used to support creationism/ID .

The folks at Harvard, Stanford and MIT don't teach creationism/ID because in their opinion, it is not based on or related to science as they recognize science.

And that's being polite about it.

[SonOfNun]

Alright, I have to admit that I probably don't know as much about evolution as everyone else. But I honestly don't see how evolution can fit in with Christianity. It seems like an attempt for Christians to fit in with the intellectual elites of the time, instead of being mocked as fools. I am not saying that Christians should be ignorant in the area of science. On the contrary we should be studying Gods world. But if God created the world through the process of evolution then wouldn't there be death and sin before the fall of man? And if you say there is no death and that things evolved on their own without death then what was the point of such a process? It seems useless and a waste of time. And from what I have read in the Bible and seen in this world our God is a God of reason and order. Nothing happens for no reason whatsoever. The Bible says that God made Adam out of the dust, if by this you mean "evolution" then I would have no argument. It says right there that God took something simple and made something complex. But it wasn't until man was fully formed that God breathed into it. Why can't we let the Bible speak for it's self that the Earth was made in 7 days. Not only in Genesis is the idea that God made the earth in seven days hinted to, but in the entire Bible.
I must surrender my opinions, for the time being at least, because of what I said in the beginning. I am very young and I don't know a lot about evolution yet. My knowledge is very limited. But I will study keep studying Gods world, and I will study the theory of evolution that way by the time I am in college I can stand on my own two feet.
As for the topic that we are really supposed to be discussing I have this to say. That no Christian should judge another brother in Christ due to a carnal matter such as this one. In the end God made the earth, in the end it doesn't matter how he made, but that he made it. Jesus did not come to earth spouting out scientific theories but how to live the way God intended us to live. Whether the earth is flat, round, created in 7 days, or 7 million years, God is still in heaven, I am still saved by grace, and those who are lost are still going to hell. I know I sound ignorant, and I must admit again that I am, but give me time .

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by SonOfNun

Alright, I have to admit that I probably don't know as much about evolution as everyone else. But I honestly don't see how evolution can fit in with Christianity. It seems like an attempt for Christians to fit in with the intellectual elites of the time, instead of being mocked as fools. I am not saying that Christians should be ignorant in the area of science. On the contrary we should be studying Gods world. But if God created the world through the process of evolution then wouldn't there be death and sin before the fall of man? And if you say there is no death and that things evolved on their own without death then what was the point of such a process? It seems useless and a waste of time. And from what I have read in the Bible and seen in this world our God is a God of reason and order. Nothing happens for no reason whatsoever. The Bible says that God made Adam out of the dust, if by this you mean "evolution" then I would have no argument. It says right there that God took something simple and made something complex. But it wasn't until man was fully formed that God breathed into it. Why can't we let the Bible speak for it's self that the Earth was made in 7 days. Not only in Genesis is the idea that God made the earth in seven days hinted to, but in the entire Bible.
I must surrender my opinions, for the time being at least, because of what I said in the beginning. I am very young and I don't know a lot about evolution yet. My knowledge is very limited. But I will study keep studying Gods world, and I will study the theory of evolution that way by the time I am in college I can stand on my own two feet.
As for the topic that we are really supposed to be discussing I have this to say. That no Christian should judge another brother in Christ due to a carnal matter such as this one. In the end God made the earth, in the end it doesn't matter how he made, but that he made it. Jesus did not come to earth spouting out scientific theories but how to live the way God intended us to live. Whether the earth is flat, round, created in 7 days, or 7 million years, God is still in heaven, I am still saved by grace, and those who are lost are still going to hell. I know I sound ignorant, and I must admit again that I am, but give me time .

The first thing to remember is that evolution has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with creation, how life began, the beginning of life, etc.

Evolution attempts to explain the diversity of the life on the planet, NOT how afore mentioned life started on the planet.

Seems to me that the ONLY way creation can refute evolution is to show, through research and actual scientific evidence, that all the animals just poofed into existence.

[Captain Civic]

Originally Posted by rojse

If you have at least read about the theory of evolution (or any other theory for that matter), and still disagree with it, that is fine in this case. If you have tried and failed to understand it, that is fine, too. Although I might disagree with your conclusions, I can respect that you have at least made some attempt to understand it. But if you don't even read the theory, try to understand the basic mechanics from someone who supports it, or something like that, then the ignorance is wilful, in that you have not even tried to make an attempt to understand it.

Couldn't agree more.

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by SonOfNun

Alright, I have to admit that I probably don't know as much about evolution as everyone else. But I honestly don't see how evolution can fit in with Christianity. It seems like an attempt for Christians to fit in with the intellectual elites of the time, instead of being mocked as fools.

Yes, we would rather be mocked as fools by those who feel our Christianity is somehow lacking. Instead of TELLING us why we believe what we do: why don't you ASK??? It's simple really.

Originally Posted by SonOfNun

I am not saying that Christians should be ignorant in the area of science. On the contrary we should be studying Gods world. But if God created the world through the process of evolution then wouldn't there be death and sin before the fall of man?

Perhaps the death that was introduced was SPIRITUAL and not PHYSICAL? You see, Adam and Eve dies the VERY SAME DAY that they sinned. Which is worse? To undergo a physical death, or to be separated from God for all eternity?

Originally Posted by SonOfNun

And if you say there is no death and that things evolved on their own without death then what was the point of such a process? It seems useless and a waste of time. And from what I have read in the Bible and seen in this world our God is a God of reason and order. Nothing happens for no reason whatsoever.

Then please explain our rich and consistent fossil record. Explain the time lines for them while you are at it.

Originally Posted by SonOfNun

The Bible says that God made Adam out of the dust, if by this you mean "evolution" then I would have no argument. It says right there that God took something simple and made something complex.

First of all, most of Genesis is allegoric in nature. God has tried to explain some BIG concepts to ancient man. Their vocabulary and conceptual abilities aren't quite up to the task of God telling them aka Carl Sagan: "Billions and Billions of years ago..." There are no words for epochs, no words for DNA or even mutation. They don't even know about germs yet. Ergo the point of Genesis was not to provide a science account of creation. The point was that God was in charge.

Originally Posted by SonOfNun

Jesus did not come to earth spouting out scientific theories but how to live the way God intended us to live.

Something about LOVE, if I remember rightly.