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Reload this Page How Can ID/Creationism Be Science? (Darwin, evolution, God, verse)
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  #41  
Old 02-07-2008, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Hela cells/lab pandemic View Post
Scientific support for the Strong Anthropic Principle.
There is no scientific support for that theory. The principle itself is not at all scientific. It's a false premise that was philosophically destroyed a long time ago. Of course this universe has to be perfect to support life. Otherwise you wouldn't be here on the internet. To say "well if it was off this much we wouldn't be here, that's so amazing it's proof" is just nonsense - sorry.

Claims of incredibility have no scientific basis and are just personal opinion.

The theory is basically a claim of incredibility. No real science there.
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  #42  
Old 02-07-2008, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Rolling_Stone View Post
The aggressiveness on the part of biologists we see towards the Sheldrakes and others is a kind of defense, as in the best defense is a good offense.
Which is exactly the tactic you used here.
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  #43  
Old 02-07-2008, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Soldano16 View Post
There is no scientific support for that theory. The principle itself is not at all scientific. It's a false premise that was philosophically destroyed a long time ago.
Its not scientific because its not falsifiable. I have never seen a philosophical destruction of it as well.

Either way, the core of the strong anthropic principle does not support ID claims in the slightest. All it does state is that a universe must allow for the existence of intelligent, or the universe could not exist. There are other flavors of it, but they all seem revolve around that.
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  #44  
Old 02-07-2008, 05:45 PM
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The Anthropic Principle Does Not Support Supernaturalism
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  #45  
Old 02-07-2008, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by yossarian22 View Post
I have never seen a philosophical destruction of it as well.
Very simple. Of course everything in the universe is perfect to support life as we know it. Otherwise we would not be here to examine the question in the first place.

So no matter how great you can make the odds against life, it's obvious that life won the "life" lottery. So there's nothing to discuss.

The proof is in the pudding, as they say.
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  #46  
Old 02-07-2008, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Soldano16 View Post
Very simple. Of course everything in the universe is perfect to support life as we know it. Otherwise we would not be here to examine the question in the first place.
Anthropic principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You just cited the weak form
'It should not surprise us that conditions in our area are capable of supporting life.'
The strong form is a continuation of that to say
'A universe must allow for the existence of intelligent life in order to exist'
The first is common sense. The second is unscientific because it is unfalsifiable.
Now these are not direct quotes from the Wiki so much as a general summary. There are dozens of forms for both strong and weak, but all contain those core bits.
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  #47  
Old 02-08-2008, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by yossarian22 View Post
'A universe must allow for the existence of intelligent life in order to exist'
Is the point that if there was no life in the universe, the universe could not exist?
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  #48  
Old 02-08-2008, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Soldano16 View Post
Is the point that if there was no life in the universe, the universe could not exist?
Specifically intelligent life(or conscious life).
The reason its unfalsifiable is its implication
If there are no observers in a given universe, that universe ceases to exist.
If we view another universe, according to the strong anthropic principle, we just created one. Unfalsifiable, but it does not support the claims of ID in the slightest. If anything, it lends itself more to randomness.
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  #49  
Old 02-09-2008, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by yossarian22 View Post
Specifically intelligent life(or conscious life).
So the theory is based on man existing since the start of the universe?

Even Christians think the universe existed before man existed. But by this theory, that universe could not have existed.
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  #50  
Old 02-09-2008, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Soldano16 View Post
So the theory is based on man existing since the start of the universe?

Even Christians think the universe existed before man existed. But by this theory, that universe could not have existed.
seems a bit of a catch 22 if you ask me.
In order for the universe to exist man has to exist.
In order for man to exist, the universe must exist.

Neither could come first because without one, there could not be the other
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