The not so beautifull world.. (Earth, evolve, theist, bless)

[tomspug]

And you are using a preconceived notion (that beauty cannot be determined, so therefore, there is no argument) as an argument.

[camanintx]

Originally Posted by tomspug

Yes, but if everyone thinks that something is beautiful, then doesn't that counter the argument that beauty is ONLY in the eye of the beholder?

Not unless you can prove that everyone thinks something is beautiful. If it is possible to posit just one person who doesn't agree, then doesn't your argument that beauty is objective fail?

[tomspug]

Exactly, I agree.

The question is, are there things that are undeniably beautiful. THAT is the real question.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by tomspug

The question is, are there things that are undeniably beautiful. THAT is the real question.

I suggest that it is not a "real question" at all. Let's see. What is the (your) undeniable definition of beauty?

[Autodidact]

Originally Posted by tomspug

So if I go to Yosemite National Park and say, 'this is beautiful'. Are you going to say, 'no it's not'? Because I'm pretty sure you'd be 100% wrong.

Philosophy can only go as far as experience. Anyone who has seen something beautiful will never agree with you, no matter how much you talk.

Did someone here deny the existence of beauty?

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by tomspug

And you are using a preconceived notion (that beauty cannot be determined, so therefore, there is no argument) as an argument.

What are you talking about?
Beauty can be determined.
What cannot be determined is an absolute beauty.
Big difference.

So there is no preconceived notion in this thread other than your 'absolute beauty' and I do not know that you are as of yet claiming any such thing.

[tomspug]

You believe that beauty can only be determined from an individual perspective.

You are making a philosophical assumption of post-modernism to prove your point. Things can be determined by consensus, and it is a perfectly reasonable argument that if something is evident to a majority that the consensus could possibly be determining an absolute truth.

You may disagree, but you have to at least consent that this is a possibility.

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by tomspug

You believe that beauty can only be determined from an individual perspective.

You are making a philosophical assumption of post-modernism to prove your point. Things can be determined by consensus, and it is a perfectly reasonable argument that if something is evident to a majority that the consensus could possibly be determining an absolute truth.

You may disagree, but you have to at least consent that this is a possibility.

And what comprises a consensus?
Oh yeah.
individual perspectives that have been compromised upon.
you seem hell bent on creating an absolute that does not exist.


Just how many people having the same opinion does it take to make said opinion a fact?
How many to make an opinion an absolute truth?
Then we can get a big group of people liqueured up and come up with tons of absolute truths.

[BUDDY]

Originally Posted by Bouncing Ball

"When you look at this beautifull world and all of it's advanced things like snowflakes and eyes you can just see there must have been a builder.."

I agree with the beautifull world.. But I can't see that this world is so complex that it must have had a builder.

I wonder, for the ones who think this world is so complex that it needs a builder;
What kind of world could exist that looks like as if doesn't need a builder, in your eyes?

First you have to keep in mind that beauty is subjective. What I find beautiful, others would not.

The only way I know to answer the question is to suggest that perhaps the most beautiful thing about our planet in particular is the lack of chaos in it. Perhaps the lack of a designer or builder, would have resulted in much mroe chaos then we see today. Again, there are going to be many who say there are many examples that we do live is chaos. This is just my opinion. Other than that, I truely don't have an answer for the question.