Is God a By-Product Of Natural Selection? (beliefs, evolution, America)

[Sunstone]

Is belief in god(s) a by-product of natural selection for some other human trait, or was belief in god(s) actually selected for?


From here:

When you put two arches side by side each other, you create a triangular space between them called a "spandrel".

Now, a spandrel is not something intended, but is rather the side-effect of placing arches adjacent to each other. Whenever you place arches side by side each other, you get a spandrel -- whether you want one or not. That fact inspired the biologist Stephen J. Gould to borrow the term from architecture in order to describe any feature of an organism that did not itself evolve for an evolutionary reason, but was instead a side-effect of some other feature's evolution.

Suppose, for instance, that natural selection results in a wolf's snout getting longer and longer. Further suppose that, as a side-effect of the snout getting longer, the wolf's face just happens to get narrower (Maybe by accident the wolves with genes for long snouts also had genes for narrow faces). So, unlike the snout, the narrow face is not caused by natural selection. If that were to happen, the narrow face would be a spandrel.

Recently, Scott Atran and others have been arguing that human religiosity is at least to some extent a spandrel. Specifically, Atran has argued that belief in supernatural agents -- gods, demons, spirits, and so forth -- is a spandrel. (Belief in supernatural agents is not the sum of human religiosity, but it's a very large chunk of the sum.) So, if Atran is right, the fact every known culture and society has contained one belief or another in supernatural agents is merely an accident of human evolution. There was no natural selection for such beliefs. It merely happened as the by-product of selection for other things.

What do you think?

[doppelgänger]

"Belief" that ties people into larger group identities has a direct evolutionary advantage over individuality and creativity. People in large, organized groups tend to squash individuals, rape their women, kill their kids, and take their stuff. The fact that for a long time it was "God" in particular is a spandrel maybe, but "I'm an American" or "I'm a conservative" could be reasonably modeled as manifestations of the same adaptive device - expansive group identity sub-planting individual identity of "self".

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Is belief in god(s) a by-product of natural selection for some other human trait, or was belief in god(s) actually selected for?

I find it hard to believe that man would think there is something greater than itself unless that something actually existed. Therefore I'd say no to your question.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

I find it hard to believe that man would think there is something greater than itself unless that something actually existed. Therefore I'd say no to your question.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Sandy. I find it hard to believe that the mere fact man can think there's something greater than itself is evidence for the existence of something greater.

[Scuba Pete]

What Sandy said!

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

"Belief" that ties people into larger group identities has a direct evolutionary advantage over individuality and creativity. People in large, organized groups tend to squash individuals, rape their women, kill their kids, and take their stuff. The fact that for a long time it was "God" in particular is a spandrel maybe, but "I'm an American" or "I'm a conservative" could be reasonably modeled as manifestations of the same adaptive device - expansive group identity sub-planting individual identity of "self".

That might be a good description of how religion sometimes functions today, but is it evidence of how religion evolved?

[Papersock]

It could have started out as a side effect and later became somewhat selective.
Didn't everything in evolution start out as an accidental side effect of something else selected?

[UnTheist]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

I find it hard to believe that man would think there is something greater than itself unless that something actually existed. Therefore I'd say no to your question.

"I think there is a power greater than me, therefore there is a power greater than me."

What about "I don't think there is a power greater than me, therefore no power is greater than me."