America, Evolution and our Global standing (tradition, choice, creation, experience)

[painted wolf]

Found this in my on line wandering and it made me pause for a while.

It pretty widely known that the "average" American either doesn't beleive in evolution or just doesn't understand it. But what about the rest of the world?

*snitched from: http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/bloo...m07_index.html

I knew we were a sorry lot, but I didn't reallize how bad it was in this country... this seems to reflect a wider weakness in both Science and Math.

Mean Performance on Science Scale

Range of ranks1CountryUpper
rank2Lower
rank3Finland13Japan13Hong Kong (China)24South Korea24Liechtenstein511Australia510Macao (China)510Netherlands511Czech Republic511New Zealand611Canada812Switzerland1015France1216Belgiu m1216Sweden1318Ireland1318Hungary1419Germany1421Po land1722Slovak Republic1825Iceland1923United States2027Austria1928Russian Federation2030Latvia2029Spain2229Italy2230Norway24 30Luxembourg2630Greece2531Denmark3032Portugal3132U ruguay3335Serbia3336Turkey3336Thailand3436Mexico37 37Indonesia3839Brazil3840Tunisia3940

1. Because data are based on samples, it is not possible to report exact rank order positions for countries. However, it is possible to report the range of rank order positions within which the country mean lies with 95% likelihood.
2. Rank based on top two levels of proficiency (out of six) on mean scale of science performance.
3. Rank based on lowest two levels of proficiency (out of six) on mean scale of science performance.
Source: Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, OECD PISA (Program for Student Assessment) 2003 database.
*snagged from: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0923110.html

How can we expect our nation to do better in science when it seems the majority of the country argues the basic tennants of Biology?
What about the fact that the argument isn't based on evidence but on fundimentalist literal interpretations of the Bible.

wa:do

[Engyo]

We all get the government (and country) we deserve, especially over time.

[MaddLlama]

Holy crap...

[Engyo]

The other thing I noticed is that we are still #2....................

[Random]

All this shows me is that for many, the theory of Evolution as it stands is so counter-intuitive that people have a hard time buying it.

If the fundamental tenant of Biology includes such highly disputible metaphysical claims such as the randomness of Mutation and the Directional vs Adaptive elements of Natural Selection, then intelligent and honestly skeptical men are going to dispute it, simple as that. A quick review of the theory in terms of the other workable explanation of manifest reality, Causality, will surely reveal the chinks in it even to the dullest person.

Look, no-one wants Evolution to be un-true: except for some fundies who argue themselves out of the equation, most men who respect and honour science and believe in our ability to figure things out for ourselves don't want it to be disproven because the theory explains what it explains elegantly and succinctly.

But to say there is a mechanism in nature which gave rise to Man and beasts alike yet not endevour to explain who created or programmed this mechanism or where the atoms and molecules that comprise it actually came from is to offer people an ogres choice: an incomplete theory which explains our physical forms as it is ONLY or a more flexible belief in creation that offers a more varied and holistic answer.

In any case, why should doubt or skepticism of Evolutionary theory threaten? Aren't these things that drive our thirst for knowlege?

For me, Evolution works better as an Ontological concept than a pure science, @ least until the many gaps in the theory are worked out and the inconsistencies worked out.

Until they are, people are entitled to believe or disbelieve it as they will.

[Random]

Bumpity-Bump for my wonderful post above. Where's the frubals, huh? C'mon...

[fantôme profane]

[pet peeve]
I have seen a number of surveys of this type that include dozens of different countries, but they never include Canada. What, are we invisible up here? I know we don’t have a huge population but it is larger than many of those countries on this list. And geographically we are the second largest country in the world. That should count for something. At least you should be able to spot us on a map.

Anyways in terms of Canada’s belief in evolution it ranks somewhere around 50% or slightly higher. That puts us near the bottom of the list around Lithuania and Bulgaria. And while I am still in Pet Peeve mode I blame our proximity to the United States for our dismal showing in this area. And while I am still at it I think I will blame the Americans for us not even being on the list in the first place. (Blaming Americans is a long and proud Canadian tradition. ) O.K, I’m done now.[/pet peeve]

Originally Posted by Random

All this shows me is that for many, the theory of Evolution as it stands is so counter-intuitive that people have a hard time buying it.

But a great many scientific concepts are counter-intuitive. If your car runs out of gas and the engine stops the car slows down and stops. Intuition (and experience) tells us that when there is no longer a force being applied to a moving body it will come to a rest. But Newton says that a moving body tends to stay in motion unless a force is applied to it. That is counter-intuitive. But it is true, and there doesn’t seem to be a lot of controversy about it. Einstein tell us that time and space are relative concepts and not absolute, that a moving body will experience slower time and a decrease in size, and that gravity warps not only space but time as well. This is counter-intuitive. But counter-intuitive certainly does not mean false.

I understand that the idea that something as complicated as a human or animal can come about without some kind of advanced plan is extremely counter-intuitive. And I understand why many people have a hard time dealing with it. But that is not a flaw in the theory; it is a flaw in the human mind that cannot easily conceive such notions. Just as we observe moving bodies coming to rest, we observe complex machines being designed. We tend to assume that our extremely limited observations are valid on a larger scale. Sometimes they are not.

The fact that some countries like Turkey show extremely low levels of belief in evolution is not evidence that they are all highly intelligent skeptical thinkers; it is evidence of a failure in their education systems.

[fantôme profane]

Originally Posted by Random

Bumpity-Bump for my wonderful post above. Where's the frubals, huh? C'mon...

frubal whore!

[rocketman]

Originally Posted by painted wolf

I knew we were a sorry lot, but I didn't reallize how bad it was in this country... this seems to reflect a wider weakness in both Science and Math.

If people are not doing well in science or math it's because there must be something more interesting to them. Religous beliefs don't rate highly on that list imho. The world is full of other distractions for young people these days. It's not as cool to be a scientist as it used to be.

Originally Posted by painted wolf

How can we expect our nation to do better in science when it seems the majority of the country argues the basic tennants of Biology?

Your nation, America, leads the world in many scientific and science based areas and will continue to do so. A population's universal understanding of biology has nothing to do with it. Although evolutionary studies involve many scientific disciplines, the bulk of science done these days does not require a belief in biological evolution either way.

Originally Posted by painted wolf

What about the fact that the argument isn't based on evidence but on fundimentalist literal interpretations of the Bible.

Actually, you know, people aren't silly. It's not just the religious aspect, but also the idea which comes from evolution [and neuroscience as mentioned in your quoted article] and other branches of science which implies that we are nothing but a collection of particles and molecules and nothing more. People perceive/experience phenomena everyday such as 'love', 'free will', 'self-awareness' and so on. Obscure descriptions from thos