Can creation and evolution co-exist? (Jesus, moral, Creator, Earth)

[cvipertooth]

I have grown up, as a christian, to believe that creationism and evolutionism are completely opposite and it is impossible to believe in evolution withouth denying that God is the absolute moral creator of this universe. Today, after learning about evolution in my biology class, I came home and opened my Bible up to Genesis...

Genesis 1:2= "Now the Earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the spirit of God was hovering over the waters."

hmmmm.......sounds to me like this could be some sort of primordial soup.

Genesis 1:3= "And God said 'let there be light' and there was light...God called the light 'day' and the darkness 'night'"

Genesis 1:14= "And God said 'Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to seperate the day from the night, let them serve as signs to mark the seasons and the days and the years"

Now, if there was light in 1:3 and then the light that was in the sky (or the sun) wasnt set into place until 1:14, what was the light in between? The light of God's glory? Also, if there was no set time until 1:14 to seperate days, could this period of time between 1:3 and 1:14 where seed plants come onto earth (1:11) be what we know as the Precambrian Era, which accounts from January 1 to mid october on the theoretical calendar? This period of time could be however long God wanted it to be, since God is eternal and is not boudn by time.

Also, the name Adam means made of red clay in hebrew. How exaclty does that mean one person? Could Adam be represented only because he is the beginning of the lineage of Christ? What is to say God did not create "people" before or outside of the Garden Of Eden?

Genesis 1:26-27= "Then God said 'let us make man in our own image, in our likeness, and let him rule over the fish of the sea and the birds in the air, over livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground' (27) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them."

Genesis 2:7= "the Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."

In my Bible there is a footnote for the man and according to my Bible, the man means Adam. hmmm. so god created man in his own image in 1:27 but then created adam in 2:7. Was Adam the first, or was Adam the first in the line of Jesus?

I am neither trying to disprove Creation or Evolution, i am rather trying to find a medium between the two. This is a battle that will be fought until Christ comes back but maybe that means that neither side of this argument is wrong. Please give me your opinions and insight.

[Doc]

I think it is possible to believe in both to some extent. I believe that God did create the Earth and man but I think that over time, species can change a little bit. Usually adapting to different environments and climates. And God making man out of clay can prove that the first beings on the planet came from the Earth itself. But it required him to make that lifeless form into a man. I guess both sides have their strong and weak points!

[Jayhawker Soule]

The Bible is the product of man.
Genesis conflates two variants of its creation myth.
The Torah has nothing to do with Jesus.
Evolution has nothing to do with creation.

[standing_on_one_foot]

Well, I don't think it's possible to believe that creation literally happened the way it's described in the Bible while believing in evolution at the same time, but I don't think it's in the least impossible to believe that there was a God who created or started up or whatever you like the universe and that life evolves. Personally, I think ending up with humans through evolution is a lot more impressive and complex and beautiful and lots of other adjectives than just making a clay...statue, if you will, snapping your fingers, and POOF! having him come to life, but that's just me, I suppose...and for the record, I'm not implying humans are the end result of evolution or the pinnacle of evolution or what evolution "had in mind" or anything, I'm just saying we did come out of it and I think that's kinda cool.

And, by default, unless humans were created twice, the first man would have to be the first in the line of Jesus. That's rather the point. He'd be the first man in everyone's line.

[cvipertooth]

Originally Posted by Deut. 32.8

The Bible is the product of man.
Genesis conflates two variants of its creation myth.

Of course the bible was written by man, this only further justifies my point. Genesis was written by an imperfect man. If the author of Genesis was incapable of understanding the power of God, as all mankind is, how would he have told the difference between one day and 1.3 billion years, if the only light present was that of the glory of God? About your second comment i'm not sure I understand could you please elaborate?

Originally Posted by Deut. 32.8

The Torah has nothing to do with Jesus.
Evolution has nothing to do with creation.

I'm sorry but the Torah,, or the Pentatuech has everything to do with Jesus. Adam's family tree is also that of Abraham, David, and finally Jesus. This is found in the geneologies of Genesis and Matthew.

Originally Posted by standing_on_one_foot

Well, I don't think it's possible to believe that creation literally happened the way it's described in the Bible while believing in evolution at the same time, but I don't think it's in the least impossible to believe that there was a God who created or started up or whatever you like the universe and that life evolves.

Of course, you cannot take the entire Bible as literal truth. There are many instances of symbolism in the Bible. Too many to count. I am not saying that the whole Bible is symbolic but there are some parts that it would seem like the author was on a very bad acid trip (ex. Revelation)

Originally Posted by standing_on_one_foot

Personally, I think ending up with humans through evolution is a lot more impressive and complex and beautiful and lots of other adjectives than just making a clay...statue, if you will, snapping your fingers, and POOF! having him come to life, but that's just me

We were made for God's pleasure. What better way to create something that would choose to worship him (as opposed to "robots" who worship him blindly) than to create mankind that is completely self-sufficient and is capable of creating new life itself? You are right, there are not words to describe how perfect the creation of God is, and the evolution theory is also a beautiful thing. I think the world would be a better place both sides of this arguemnet could just "get along"

[Ceridwen018]

I think it's perfectly acceptable to believe in evolution and god, cvipertooth. As you seemed to be picking up, the creation account in genesis runs much like evolution might have--plants formed, then animals, then humans, etc. How does god fit? Well, you could say that he instigated everything, or that everything happened because he planned it so, etc. It is not outlandish at all to believe in both evolution and god.

[cvipertooth]

Originally Posted by Ceridwen018

I think it's perfectly acceptable to believe in evolution and god, cvipertooth. As you seemed to be picking up, the creation account in genesis runs much like evolution might have--plants formed, then animals, then humans, etc. How does god fit? Well, you could say that he instigated everything, or that everything happened because he planned it so, etc. It is not outlandish at all to believe in both evolution and god.

Ceridwen, I also believe that there are many more instances that there can be gaps bridged between Christianity and many other religions or beliefs or what have you. the Bible explains everything you need to know for life and I believe that Christianity in its true form is the perfect religion. What makes it unappealing to many people is not the religion itself, but the people who interpret it falsly and then impose it onto other is the wrong way.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by cvipertooth

... Christianity in its true form is the perfect religion.

Christianity, in its true form, is base fabrication predicated upon superstition and anti-Judaism. It is a history rife with ignorance and deceipt.

[Green Gaia]

Off topic here, but I'll allow it and play along...

IMO, Christianity in it's true form would be about people finding the Christ within themselves and becoming Christ-like, which modern Christianity seems to have completely forgotten and rejected as blasphemous.

[wizanda]

As far as a lot of top evovolutionist are concerned many turn into christian or believe in god as a lot of the science behind evolution doesn't work
For instance the wood peckers toungue goes around the back of heads through its nostrals and then out its mouth as to not bite through its toungue when pecking
There is no other bird even simular so it dosent make sense it evovled
Ok if the big bang occured what laid out all the quarks and atoms so that they function in the way they do
Else we would just be in chaos which we are not the world moves in 6 diffrent directions at over 1,000,000,000,000 miles an hour and we sit here still talking on a machine on a rock in space>?
In our own bodys every 7 years you are a completly diffrent person as every cell in your body has regenerated its self
Yet when a celll does reform it makes an exsact copy of it self we dont grow extra arms as we have a lot to do
The same applies with when a baby is formed it copies a structure
so if evolution happens it is slight improvements like the shape of the nose or longer arms
If evolution was a fact we would have half breads all over the place yet we dont infact nature works in symbiosis
For nature to have evovled to be symbiotic and to function correctly it would have had to have a design before it started for it all to work as it does
Else there would be to many missing peices to the puzzle which is why so many top scientist become believers in god