Sharks that eat.........plants? (Eden, evolution, creation, hell, America)

[nutshell]

Originally Posted by Seyorni

Stop it, Sorceror! Thought-provoking questions like these only make the fundamentalists dig in their heels and embrace irrational ideas all the more fervently!

That's a close-mided and stereotyping comment.

[nutshell]

Originally Posted by Real Sorceror

I know, I couldn't help myself!

Don't celebrate your Almight intellect. Your painting Fundamentalists with a broad stoke that should not include all of them.

[Real Sorceror]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

1) the animals already existed. Humans evolved along with them.
2) I don't believe this was decided for the animals unless it's proven to be an instinctual thing. Likely it was a trial and error thing. Animals still learn what they can/should eat and what isn't worth the trouble.
3) Lions blunt teeth? I think carnivores evolved after the herbivores.
4) Nothing can go against fact. Some of us accept evolution as fact because the proof supports it and it's a very smart way to run a planet. It takes care of itself.

Yes, I'm well aware of these things, but I must question # 3. I'm pretty sure carnivorous bacteria appeared before herbivorious bacteria.

Oh, and in case anyone was confused by the OP, I'm a thiestic evolutionist. I'm not sure how clear that was. Just don't mistake me for a Bible thumper.

[Real Sorceror]

Originally Posted by nutshell

Don't celebrate your Almight intellect. Your painting Fundamentalists with a broad stoke that should not include all of them.

Are you saying that globalizing and sweeping generalizations are bad?
I'm well aware of the vast differences in individual Christian doctrine. My only beef is with the literalist fundies.

[Seyorni]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

I hate animal bias. Some people seem to think its ok to eat plants, but not ok to eat animals, why?

Plants are living beings, just as much as animals. If you eat a plant you will injure or kill it - how is this better than injuring or killing an animal?
I'll tell you how, its because humans can relate to animals but not to plants - human stupidity never ceases to surprise me.

EDIT: re-reading that rant, i think it may seem like its aimed at the thread starter, it's not.

In general, Halcyon, it's not a reluctance to take life but a reluctance to cause suffering.
Suffering and the awareness that underlies it are useful features in creatures exploiting certain ecological niches, but in other lifestyles this biologically expensive feature is useless. Evolution selects out useless feature that sap resources, hence, plants lack the nervous system to sustain awareness of pain or suffering.
We veggies are comfortable exploiting such insensate creatures. If we could photosynthesize, we would.

[nutshell]

Originally Posted by Seyorni

In general, Halcyon, it's not a reluctance to take life but a reluctance to cause suffering.
Suffering and the awareness that underlies it are useful features in creatures exploiting certain ecological niches, but in other lifestyles this biologically expensive feature is useless. Evolution selects out useless feature that sap resources, hence, plants lack the nervous system to sustain awareness of pain or suffering.
We veggies are comfortable exploiting such insensate creatures. If we could photosynthesize, we would.

What are you talking about? I photosynthesize with my HP printer all the time.

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by Seyorni

In general, Halcyon, it's not a reluctance to take life but a reluctance to cause suffering.
Suffering and the awareness that underlies it are useful features in creatures exploiting certain ecological niches, but in other lifestyles this biologically expensive feature is useless. Evolution selects out useless feature that sap resources, hence, plants lack the nervous system to sustain awareness of pain or suffering.
We veggies are comfortable exploiting such insensate creatures. If we could photosynthesize, we would.

Actually there is evidence that plants do register pain. They have anervous system, just not an animal-like nervous system.
When you rip off a leaf or pull up a carrot, chemicals and hormones are released that spread throughout the organism. I've also read research (that i can't sem to find online, so assume it was in a journal) that there is also an electrical response induced in injured plants.

I've even seen some research looking at electrical communications between plant roots via ground water. Plant neurobiology is still a young science though.

The simple fact is that because people cannot observe a reaction to pain that they recognise in plants, as they would in other animals, they assume that plants are unaware, they are not. The evidence is growing that plants are just as aware of their surroundings and of their own bodies as animals.

Many people justify killing animals to themselves because the animals are "inferior to us, they aren't human". The vast majority of humans use the same logic with plants "plants don't feel pain, they aren't animal, they are inferior", they just don't realise it.

Plants, and fungi, are as evolved as any animal organism on this planet. Their bodies are different, they live in a totally different way and they interact with each other and their environment in such an alien manner that, as animals, humans simply don't notice.

[Real Sorceror]

Good post Halcyon!

Still, I have to recognize that, biologically, I am an omnivore, and if I want to live I have to kill something and eat it.

........what where we talking about?

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by Real Sorceror

Good post Halcyon!