What proof does Inteligent Design offer? (ritual, moral, Creator, Earth)

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

This thread will confine itself to positive, peer reviewed, testable theories and comments regarding them

Discussion anyone on the postive, scientific proofs of life's origin that come from the Bible?

-pah-

[Raphael]

Some of the chief principals and scientific proofs regarding the origin of life are intricately tied and founded on other proofs. For example beginning with "Prime Cause", then combining prime cause with "Intellectual Motion", and the Highbredization of the species due to genetic disposition connected to both "Divine Providence," and Predestination of the individual we arrive not just at the origin of life but of specific intended individuals. These philosophies are understood in the light of concepts tied to the immutable existance of the origin of motion, and of its Infinite Knowledge and Power. IE. Eternal, Omnipresence, and Omnipotence.

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Originally Posted by Raphael

Some of the chief principals and scientific proofs regarding the origin of life are intricately tied and founded on other proofs. For example beginning with "Prime Cause", then combining prime cause with "Intellectual Motion", and the Highbredization of the species due to genetic disposition connected to both "Divine Providence," and Predestination of the individual we arrive not just at the origin of life but of specific intended individuals. These philosophies are understood in the light of concepts tied to the immutable existance of the origin of motion, and of its Infinite Knowledge and Power. IE. Eternal, Omnipresence, and Omnipotence.

We are not here to discuss philiosophy in this thread. This post is off-topic

Sorry, a more appropiate forum would be World Philosophies in the dicussion section.

-pah-

[kbc_1963]

high complexity
order
irreducible complexity

all of which is not allowed to be considered by peer review so basicly there will be nothing to post here so this should be a short topic.

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Originally Posted by kbc_1963

high complexity
order
irreducible complexity

all of which is not allowed to be considered by peer review so basicly there will be nothing to post here so this should be a short topic.

I see only two on the list but I see no scientific support for what I suppose is creationism or it's guise in Intelligent Design - peer reviewed or not.

-pah-

[roli]

What proof does Inteligent Design offer


Offer for what?

Proof in regards to God's eixtence , creation, evolution, judgement etc or just proof of Inteligent design, could you be more specific.

Proof of Intelligent design behind a specific object,be it animate or inanimate, are axiomatic in the processes involved surrounding that particular object in design .
ie:
1)What do you know about a watch?
2) Does it actually exist,using your sensory perception, providing your reasoning and rationale mind has'nt usurped authority over your sensory perception,
3)What are the ingredients and where are the ingredients derived from ( originate).
4)Were the ingredients created specifically or are they of natural origin.
5) What are the facts surrounding it's existence and operation, the steps and processes invoved to systematically assemble and initiate the operation.
6) What are the confines in which this watch must operate

Logically speaking,the intellectual mind can really only rationalize on the pertaining facts and truths within the confines of the design, not speculative assumptions and personal conceptual perspectives, leading usually to rhetoric
ie: how do know that the rock in which the metal was extracted was located in texas or timbucktoo!, who cares! Not Relavent!!!!!!
That line of thought might be ideal if and how you are able to modify and alter the oringinal design of the object and it's purpose after it's partially or fully designed,
Although ,some things in this world are actually self-evident and exist outside the rational mind of man to comprehend and maybe even function naturally without man's assistance,possibly even originated before man was present.
we still spend and are being spent on a labourious doing of nothing in the area of rational explanations and intellectual concepts as we analyze everything to death, thru thought.
Otherwise it can become a mirage of combative thoughts,initiated by pride, thrusted out to prove nothing, but intellectual domination and stimulation.

Inteligent design offers many conclusions, of course a designer, logic , resources,planning ,order,calculations, goals ,vision, ,objective/ pupose, restrictions, boundaries, limitations, all these held together by the self existent and immutable laws that the entire design is confined to exist in.

Science, first and foremost ,is the process that involves gathering
facts of information and arranging them in a manner in which to review, and examine, step by step.
First look at science then history using a rational mind :then
Look at evidence,
Look at examples
Look at experience
Look at equations
Look at existence

How many things have you actually seen before your eyes, that evolved from one thing into another? I don't mean adaptation, mutation, natural process or progress, but what the theory of evolution is based on, which says," non living produces living organisms"
ie: a can of coke ,did not just evolve and arrive, over millions of years with ,lettering, the tab, the tin, the shape, what are the chances of it just happening, the chances are there, if someone chooses to over rationalize and travel down that narrow intellectual road. Much like God, creation ,sin ,truth

If the can of coke is used for a plant pot, it is still ,metal, drived from rock, from the earth, processed, created and formulated by an intelligent designer,COCA COLA, THE PURPOSE IS ALTERED, no longer a can of coke but a can of soil with a new purpose and design, still confined to restrictions and limitations or laws within and outside it's original purpose.
How much more the intelligent design and purpose behind man.
We were created to worship, obey and submit to our creator.
We are relentlessly endeavoring to pursue alternate purposes for ourselves, regardless of the consequences of operating outside the perimeters of our boundaries, be it morally , physically, spiritually and intellectually,

Man has determined to disprove God, I believe, to justify operating outside the moral (law) confines of a Moralistic, righteous, merciful,gracious and purposful Inteligent Designer who has set these standards in all of us and will judge us accordingly, whether we agree or not.

The bible declares that, Rom1 " just from what is created, man will be without excuse on judgement day, for what may be known of God has been maifested in us he has shown himself to us," throught the obvious, nature and Intelligent Design

[linwood]

Man has determined to disprove God, I believe, to justify operating outside the moral (law) confines of a Moralistic, righteous, merciful,gracious and purposful Inteligent Designer who has set these standards in all of us and will judge us accordingly, whether we agree or not.

You couldn`t be more wrong.

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Sorry Roli, I see no answer to the question which is "Discussion anyone on the postive, scientific proofs of life's origin that come from the Bible?"

The question shows it difficulty by being dormant fo so long.

-pah-

[The Voice of Reason]

Roli -

I mean no disrespect, but I got absolutely nothing from your post. That is to say, I was hoping that someone on the Theist side of the aisle would respond with something along the lines of:
The following empirical evidence shows the validity of Intelligent Design -
(and then you would list as many pieces of evidence that you could find). If you believe that no empirical evidence is needed, but that logic and reason can lead one to conclude that Intelligent Design is a valid viewpoint, please feel free to take that line of thought. I don't mean to speak for Pah - but I think he would welcome an argument on that front as well.

I read your post and the only thing I got out of it was the usual argument that Intelligent Design is beyond the reasoning of man, and by the way, don't question it - if you do, you'll go to Hell.
If I missed some of the empirical evidence that Pah seems to be asking for, please forgive me - I just didn't see it.

Thanks,
TVOR

[roli]

[quote=The Voice of Reason]Roli -

I mean no disrespect, but I got absolutely nothing from your post. That is to say, I was hoping that someone on the Theist side of the aisle would respond with something along the lines of:
The following empirical evidence shows the validity of Intelligent Design -
(and then you would list as many pieces of evidence that you could find). If you believe that no empirical evidence is needed, but that logic and reason can lead one to conclude that Intelligent Design is a valid viewpoint, please feel free to take that line of thought. I don't mean to speak for Pah - but I think he would welcome an argument on that front as well.

I read your post and the only thing I got out of it was the usual argument that Intelligent Design is beyond the reasoning of man, and by the way, don't question it - if you do, you'll go to Hell.
If I missed some of the empirical evidence that Pah seems to be asking for, please forgive me - I just didn't see it.
ROLI RESPONSE
I see no evidence in my thread that would indicate I was stating directly that Intelligent design is beyond the reasoning of man, on the contrary, I did indicate that we will be without excuse before God, just from what is created and that we over rationalize so many issues in this life that tend to take us down the proverbial path of thought.
My point is that when I look at the complexities of nature ,life, the human eye for instance, not to mention the laws that intrinsically govern and regulate such existence, I can't even imagine that their is no intelligent design behind such things.

To begin to actually list all the evidences for Intelligent design from an already axiomatic scenario of design would be an insult to your rational mind, and insinuate your complete ignorance to what you sense through your sensory perception or do we use that form of perception anymore in the logical and intellectual spectrum.

I try not to get too elaborate, but how many things outside the realm of such theistic topics as , God Morality, standards ,Heaven etc .etc. do you need such empirical evidence, such as when you sit down to eat in a restaurant. Do you actually require evidence that the food is clear of poison or bacteria ,you never have actual proof of anything, but you eat it ,regardless of your assumptions or do you check the breaks on your vehicle before you drive away.
I would think there may be some rational thought of speculation if these questions arise but rarely , if anytime ,will you check them out explicidly,evaluate and rationalize them.

For the question at hand, the answer is self evident ,if you can look at the world around you rationally it denotes something more intelligent is behind design.
That may of course be insuffcient for those of you who are looking for more to philosophize on, but I value my time a little more then to prove something self evident, no offense intended
Can I give scientific evidence about design, where would you like me to begin, the
physiological, chemical, universal or biological or natural evidence .
I will get back with something you can feed on,as these are not my areas of expertise, rather then my logical perspective based on what is all around me ie: the oxygen , gravity, cell structure and healing of the cells, migration of certain birds naturally to warm climates, what do these do if not prove intelligent design
God says, man will be without excuse about who GOD is, his attributes , creation and his divine Godhead., just from the creation that already exists around man, does God insinuate you have to use visual perception coupled with rational thought to see the emperical evidence , I would tend to lean that direction