Billions of people getting punkd by "Religion"???? (Jesus, myth)

[finalfrogo]

Originally Posted by randb

3000 years ago:
An average Joe had to go through tough times, cuz he was a peasant. He felt that he was being treated unfair. So he decided to become a nice person who would dedicate the rest of his life to serving humanity. (aka The Saint) So he travelled a lot, and then decided to write a book based on his thoughts. He became a famous person, cuz he preached equality. Then he made everyone believe that he was god. (I wud've done the exact same thing, cuz then i wont have to work, and i can get whatever I want) Others were like "Hey that guy started his religion, so I'm gonna start mine". Then books started showing up, and thus gods were created!!!

Till recently, it was considered "evil" to not believe in god. A small simple paragraph in the book made sure that ATM theories wouldn't gain popularity.

Think about this: A 10 yr old is told by his MOTHER that there is a saint somewhere in the Himalayas, who can turn stone into gold. Its highly likely that he would buy it. And just like that...religion grows!!

But why would his mommy lie to him like that?
Because she believes in god, although she hasn't seen a miracle. But then she doubts whether her son would believe. So she comes up with the perfect story to make him believe.
That kid will in turn tell his daughter that her grandma was witness to miracles... And thus we hear of all these miracles. When I was a kid, my grandma told me that there were saints who would seperate their skulls from their bodies, just to clean, and comb their hair!!!!!!

I'm not saying that these are facts. But they're highly possible to have happenned. And yes, I'm crazy!!!!

Good theory, but it can never be validated as you weren't around 3000 years ago.

[!Fluffy!]

Originally Posted by Mainiack11

I believe all that is required of me to gain entrance into heaven is to be a good person. No strings, or dogma, attached. So I personally am not being "punkd" by religion. I believe some people may be being punkd, but most people that have religion choose to do so.

So how good of a person do you have to be? Do you have to be mostly a good person, or sort of a good person, or a good person in comparison to all the other people ever born or what?

I mean, is there a secret criterion, or do you just privately judge your actions and thoughts and sort of weigh them to come to the conclusion you are a good enough person to go to heaven?

I am not trying to mock you at all, I am simply curious.

[lamplighter]

I agree with Maniack11 and I don't need a dogma to decide whats good or bad, being good only requires that you help others if it's in your power to do so and to never use others for personal gain. It doesn't take a holy book to realize "hey, maybe I shouldn't urinate on that homeless person. Perhaps he'ld like the fries that came with my cardiac arrest burger instead".

[joeboonda]

Originally Posted by Mainiack11

I believe all that is required of me to gain entrance into heaven is to be a good person. No strings, or dogma, attached. So I personally am not being "punkd" by religion. I believe some people may be being punkd, but most people that have religion choose to do so.

How good is good enough? You can never be assured of your salvation with this reasoning. The fact is that we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Compared to other humans we may feel we are ok, but compared to a sinless, holy God, all our righteousness is as filthy rags. So, how do we know how we will do at the Judgement? For 'it is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement. Well, we have the 10 commandments. So, I ask myself, have I ever told a lie, yes, I am a liar (just takes one). Have I ever stolen anything at all, yes, so I am a thief. Jesus said if I look at a woman with lust, I am an adulterer at heart, guilty! John said if I hate my brother (just once) I am a murderer at heart, guilty again. Have I taken the Lord's name in vain, yup, I am a blasphemer. Do I have other Gods before God, yes, at times, many folks would rather go golfing, fishing, etc. than go to church on Sunday, this is idolatry, Have I coveted, Paul said that is what got him, he didn't break the commandments, but he WANTED to. It is also, wanting something that someone has better than yours, like a nice car, home, etc. SO, lets see how I stand before God: I am a lying, thieving, adulterer and murderer at heart, a blasphemous, covetous, idolater, and when I stand before God, I will be pronounced guilty. James said He that breaks the Law in one point is guilty of all. So, being a good person will NOT get anyone into heaven. The bible says:


3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. ( KJV, Romans)
3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
(King James Bible, Titus)
1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel
(King James Bible, 2 Timothy)
2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
(King James Bible, Galatians)

Now, having believed the gospel, the good news, that Jesus paid for my sins and imputed HIS righteousness unto me in place of my own which 'is as filthy rags', how will I stand before God having trusted in what Jesus did for me, and not in my being 'good enough'? I will be pronounced not guilty, Christ having paid my sin debt for me, freely, and clothed me in His righteousness, and I will enter heaven, not because of anything good I have done, but because I accepted what HE did FOR me. This is the gospel, this is the way. Jesus said, "Ye must be born again". That is all we must do in this life, believe in Jesus.

3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(King James Bible, John)
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
5:24 Verily, verily, (means very truly) I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
(King James Bible, John)

Believe in Jesus and you will go to Heaven, don't believe and you will have to pay for your sins in Hell forever. For, Jesus, being sinless and infinite, sufferred a finite amount of time for our sins, and rose again, defeating death (the wages of sin is death, and this is spiritual and physical) Trust alone in Christ alone, and you will have full assurance of your salvation which is eternally secured by the Lord Jesus Christ.

3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ,
5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
(King James Bible, 1 John)

[lamplighter]

All of that requires you to except christian dogma. Lust is just a feeling you get to someone whose aesthetically pleasing and it can be noble to lie (take Cassanova). Also I don't see where hating someone who threatens my well being is wrong either and most christians who tell me not to take lord's name in vain, can't even tell me what the word vain means so how can they follow a rule they don't even understand!

[shema]

Originally Posted by joeboonda

I think billions of people are getting punk'd by religion. Religion is man's attempt to earn his way to Heaven, through self-effort. I have a relationship with God through His Son, Jesus, because He freely loves us with amazing love, paid for my sins and offered salvation as a free gift, I accepted, and I simply rest in that.

yeah, I believe that too

[Bishka]

Originally Posted by lamplighter

All of that requires you to except christian dogma. Lust is just a feeling you get to someone whose aesthetically pleasing and it can be noble to lie (take Cassanova). Also I don't see where hating someone who threatens my well being is wrong either and most christians who tell me not to take lord's name in vain, can't even tell me what the word vain means so how can they follow a rule they don't even understand!

Come again?

[lamplighter]

joeboonda's logic requires belief in christianity to be good enough to get into heaven. But not being christian I don't believe thats what is required to move on. I believe it's not what you do, but why you did it.