Is it better to be a believer or an athiest? (beliefs, soul)

[Ormiston]

Originally Posted by MdmSzdWhtGuy

I agree Ormiston,

Religion held this back for centuries. It was with the rise of naturalism and secular humanism following the Reformation and the loosening of the stranglehold The Church had on society that the idea of everyone, including women, racial minorities and (perish the thought) those who did not own land was equal and deserved to be treated as full humans.

B.

Don't forget though, without religion our simple little minds would never have been able to figure out right from wrong. Unless.....we had all of that figured out before religion....hmmmm.

[Dayv]

Personally, as one who has been on both sides of the fence, I'd prefer non-belief. It's so much more open and flexible, I've never been fond of rules and being subject to 2000 year old system of morals. I like to decide for myself.

Also, if I were then wrong, and this 'god' were so cruel as to torture me for being logical and thinking for myself eventhough I was a good and kind person, I have always believed that we are all in charge of our own destiny (and no one's gonna hold me down), and I would do everything possible to topple his prejudice dictatorship, and I'm sure I wouildn't be alone (hey, they did it to Cronus).

[sky87]

Originally Posted by Ormiston

And you credit religion!? I credit man.

who gave us natural laws? how did man get this instinct to know from right or wrong? God. And through the many messengers sent down by god, we have learnt to live in a civilized society. just think about the time in arabia when there were idolators, life was a chaos, they buried girl babies alive, the status system was ridiculous, and what not, and there came a prophet names muhammad (pbuh) he addressed to the people the word of god, and it really did improve (later on the qur'anic texts weren't followed properly, paving the way to most of present middle east) people started to live in a civilized society. and ever read lord of the flies? its kind of the same thing that im trying to say here, when those kids were without rules and their elders, they grew into savages, unable to make the right choices (though we all have gut instincts, we aren't always able to follow them), therefore they needed someone to guide them, in this case it was some dude from a different country, however in real life, im trying to say that that savior was god, and i will only credit him

[Atheist_Dave]

Sky. God did not give us right and wrong, because right and wrong do not exist to our whole race. Right and wrong is different for every person, and therefore god can not have created it, or we would all feel the same right? They did not grow into savages, they grew into animals, which if we peel back all our thoughts and feelings, that is what we are.

You think you know right and wrong because of god, but you dont. You know right and wrong from what you have read about this supposed all mighty creator. Yeah, the holy books have many lessons all of us could do with thinking about now and again, but without it we would still have right and wrong.

For me to eat ham is fine by me, but for a jew it is wrong. See what I mean?

Peace x

[sky87]

i get what you're trying to get at, yes. however what about our gut instincts? if some dude told me to rob some old woman because it was real easy, would i do it? maybe (thats how all of us vary) but my gut instinct would always tell me that its not "right" get it? we all know right from wrong, but we can't always make the right decision, and these gut instincts are natural because they are god given, and religion was sent down as a guide, to help us make these decisions, and live a good life. and there is a reason for every law and rule, for example in islam it is forbidden to have intercourse before marriage, why? you and your partner could make a mistake by having a baby, who will take care of it? will you and your partner actually decide to stick with each other? etc; and you gave an example yourself; about eating ham, we have a reason for it, we don't follow this guide for nothing!

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Atheist_Dave

Sky. God did not give us right and wrong, because right and wrong do not exist to our whole race. Right and wrong is different for every person, and therefore god can not have created it, or we would all feel the same right?

I see some universiality in morality. No doubt you have some that deviate, but overall there is some concensus on things like rape, killing, stealing, etc. Is there not? Yes I know you don't think it comes from God (although you also can't prove this) but I hope you can see the concensus of it.

[Atheist_Dave]

Some people are born with brains incappable of seeing right from wrong. Some cant even see reality from delusion... are you saying that these people who cannot see right from wrong for medical reasons are in some way less holy than healthy people then? Your statement would seem to imply that... "me, my, I" you are talking about yourself here, so really your point isnt valid atall, infact its utter nonsense. Tell me why there are many religions then please why are there more than one if YOUR god definetely sent it down to us. why did different religions spring up from different parts of the world?

Peace x

[Atheist_Dave]

Originally Posted by Victor

Yes I know you don't think it comes from God (although you also can't prove this) but I hope you can see the concensus of it.

I cannot prove that there isnt a giant biscuit in the sky somewhere controlling everything I do... do you believe in it then?

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Atheist_Dave

I cannot prove that there isnt a giant biscuit in the sky somewhere controlling everything I do... do you believe in it then?

You didn't answer my question and instead decided to pull a red-herring. At the present moment I have no reason to believe God is a biscuit.

[Atheist_Dave]

I like that. Its impossible to tell for sure what we would be like without religious influence, as there are few records of human life before it was all made up. But I know this, my family has never been religious, they have never through the ages cared about the bible or God, and yet we are decent. The reason murder has become wrong maybe goes back to when we first became civilized, perhaps we realised it was a lot better for us to help each other rather than fight all the time. I could reason the others but I imagine you already have enough there to pick me apart over

Theft is similar of course, by not stealing it avoids conflicts, perhaps we began to see it is not worth the fights and possiblility of death to take the risk and steal. Im coming across completely incoherent here so I'll stop....

Peace x