Is it better to be a believer or an athiest? (beliefs, soul)

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by Random

Finally, if God is only a symbol, then what is the thing it signifies other than Mystery?

Exactly, "God" is a symbol for the Mysteries of life.

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by Random

So, God is no-thing other than a sign. Fine. Now tell me; what is signified, and where does the sign lead?

As I just replied, the signified is Mystery. The sign just helps us communicate.

[Random]

Originally Posted by mball1297

As I just replied, the signified is Mystery.

I understand.

The sign just helps us communicate.

God as limited to a linguistic construct. If this is all God is, I will be very disappointed...

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by Random

I understand.



God as limited to a linguistic construct. If this is all God is, I will be very disappointed...

I'm not saying that's all God is. The word represents something. It's just a question of what the something is. That's why it's a mystery.

[Random]

Originally Posted by mball1297

I'm not saying that's all God is. The word represents something. It's just a question of what the something is. That's why it's a mystery.

I don't like mysteries, though. I like them when they're solved...

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by Random

I don't like mysteries, though. I like them when they're solved...

I've noticed.

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by Random

I appreciate your intelligence and value your opinion, always on this forum. That's why I have one last statement on this and I hope you will reply.

Don't get me wrong, Conor, I value your ideas and your creativity as I've said many times before. You seem to have lost a great deal of clarity of late. Perhaps you've been rolling with the wrong crowd.

Originally Posted by Random

You see a degree of seperation necessary to comprehend words and the things they are symbols for, and I agree this is useful in avoiding confusion. That is a well beaten path. But...

Not quite. I see that if I'm not conscious of how words and symbols give form to reality as I experience, I will be enslaved by those symbols and trapped in one limited perspective, unable to communicate effectively or have the willingness to try to understand a different perspective. I specifically try to avoid falling under the delusion that anyone has an obligation to do the same, instead, contenting myself with understanding where they are coming from. But having said that, I find that mystics consistently practice this sort of construct awareness and my past dealings with you suggested that you understood this. So I was a little surprised to see you equate a word with the experience it connotes.

Originally Posted by Random

As regards God, can there be any meaningful seperation beyond mere intellectual comprehension of the relationship between words and symbols?

Once you label it "God" it becomes a thing - a divided up piece of reality to which one relates. We are limited to doing so by the tools of grammar. Which is why, without fail, the mystical chorus has always proclaimed that (insert metaphor here) is ineffable.

Originally Posted by Random

For as the book says, the Word was made Flesh, right? And the Word was God. Understand what I'm getting at?

No. You'll have to flesh it out a bit more.

Originally Posted by Random

Beyond the mind, in that Zen pleroma of consciousness, there is no division

And hence no "God" or any other noun - proper or otherwise. And no subject of that experience. Otherwise, all you're describing is an interpreted reflection by a very rooted "I am."

Originally Posted by Random

the crisis of spirit that arises from the seperation from God or the Word makes one undertake the journey beyond mind in the first place.

But the journey is also an illusion. A shadow cast by that very separation. Without the separation being the bedrock of experience, there is no "journey beyond the mind."

Originally Posted by Random

Finally, if God is only a symbol, then what is the thing it signifies other than Mystery?

I can't say.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by mball1297

It probably does, but, unless you're superhuman, then there's no way you can have all the answers. You can think you have them, as some people do, but it's impossible for our limitted minds to comprehend the totality of what is called "God".

Ha. You're a traveller, Matt. You've moved into a new camp this week, all clothed in new ideas again. I don't mean that as a bad thing, not at all.

Here's another idea for you, from a camp just up the road. You already have all the answers.

[Random]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

You seem to have lost a great deal of clarity of late. Perhaps you've been rolling with the wrong crowd.