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  #11  
Old 07-26-2007, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Eraser Salad View Post
Darwin wasn't much righter than Lamarck. It's Dawkins that really defined how evolution actually works.
I’m sure Dawkins would disagree with you about that.
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  #12  
Old 07-27-2007, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by fantôme profane View Post
I’m sure Dawkins would disagree with you about that.
As, I imagine, JBS Haldane, John Maynard Smith, Roland Fisher, Robert Trivers, Steve Gould etc would do.
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  #13  
Old 08-18-2008, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by painted wolf View Post
the USSR relyed on this theory for decades, trying in vain to create 'tundra wheat' and other 'super' food crops. They felt that genetics was a falce (capitalist) science. The results were famine.

the idea that the giraffe grew a long neck from stretching it and that apes lost thier tails from not using them is Lamarkian adaptation. For the most part it doesn't work that way... but it may be more apropriate in the case of whales and thier legs.

I heard that thier is some limited Lamarkian influince in genetics. I have to look up the details. Has anyone elce heard of this study?

wa:do
Actually, Lamarck did not come up with this theory, nor is it as ridiculous as it sounds. Genes can be changed, there are several ways they have been proven to adapt. Read The Survival of the Sickest, by Sharon Moalem for a fascinating discussion of evolution and genetics.
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  #14  
Old 08-18-2008, 05:34 PM
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Lamarck's own theory of evolution was in fact based on the idea that individuals adapt during their own lifetimes and transmit traits they acquire to their offspring. Offspring then adapt from where the parents left off, enabling evolution to advance.

What do you think about that?
I think it was disproved about 100 years ago.
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  #15  
Old 08-18-2008, 08:32 PM
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I think Lamark's inheritance of acquired traits theory has been long disgarded.
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  #16  
Old 08-19-2008, 08:02 PM
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wow, here is a blast from my past.

Disregarded, however it is being revisited. Immunity to disease and certain other acquired traits can be passed down from one generation to the next.

Larmarks ideas of 'purpose' however are still disregarded. A giraffe can't choose to grow a longer neck anymore than flapping your arms will make you a bird.

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  #17  
Old 08-20-2008, 11:29 AM
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Immunity to disease and certain other acquired traits can be passed down from one generation to the next.
Really?

Do you know how?
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  #18  
Old 08-22-2008, 04:18 PM
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viruses insert their own DNA into ours... that acquired change is passed down as normal.
Resistance is passed on in mammals via the placenta and umbilical cord. Its also passed though the milk.

Though I don't know all the mechanisms at work... I haven't studied it in any depth. (not yet anyhow.)

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  #19  
Old 08-22-2008, 04:35 PM
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Maybe sexual selection is part of changing physical structures, like giraffe's necks. Maybe its not just that they are able to reach the trees better, its that BECAUSE they are more able to eat well, they seem "hotter" to the opposite sex, so they mate more. So, the ones who dont mate with the longer-necks move on, find short-necked mates (maybe become horses instead) or they die out without progeny.

Its so fascinating a subject, but it seems to get oversimplified to "survival of the fittest" all the time----as if life were a constant "life and death struggle" with the environment. MAybe at the cellular level it is, but when you're a large organism, i think much more complicated factors come into play, obviously.

Like maybe theres more to this "living to pass ones genes on", like maybe you have to have (1) a viable mate, and (2) they wanna "get busy", too. If this were not true, then why would there be examples of ritualized reproductive signalling behavior throughout the animal kingdom? I think sexual selection may be overlooked because of the tendency in the west to try and reduce everything down to a molecular, mechanistic level--and so forget that life is really all about TWO things: eating and screwing. I think that's the real basis for evolution, is trying to find ways to get food and get laid,...'specially if you're an egg.
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  #20  
Old 08-22-2008, 05:26 PM
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sexual selection does play a role... Male giraffes use their necks to power attacks with their horns. Male battle one another for access to females.
Longer necks make those blows more powerful.

this isn't Lamarkian however... Lamark believed that animals moved along the 'ladder of progression'. Evolution is not progressive.

Its sad that Lamark is so lambasted. He was one of the most important pre Darwin evolution proponents.

He simply had the wrong mechanism.

(many of his ideas were revisited as part of the Modern Synthesis that brought genetics into evolution.)

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