Accepting Evolution alongside The Bible (Jesus, ritual, choices, choice)

[Jaiket]

"Evolution is not compatible with Christianity," he insists. "Genesis tells us that death only came into the world because of Adam's sin. There was no death before then, and you can't have evolution without death."

Taken from: Would you Adam and Eve it? (BBC)

Assuming that Dr Monty White is correct in his referencing of the book of Genesis, how do you reconcile these apparently contradictory positions?

I've often thought that if you believe Genesis at all you would struggle to fit it into the findings of science, but it is often explained away by interpretation.

Can the idea that death stems from Adam's sins be similarly ignored?

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by truthseekingsoul

Can the idea that death stems from Adam's sins be similarly ignored?

Yes, I generally interpret the Adam & Eve story that way: when they chose to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, creation "broke;" where it once had been "good" it was now "less good." It became "imperfect" and one of the "imperfections" is death.

How do I reconcile this story with evolution? I don't. Adam and Eve is a story, an allegory describing our own condition and how we make choices that turn us from God, and the spiritual consequences of those choices. Forget the objection that death is necessary for evolution, how can one believe that the first humans sprang into existence fully formed and still believe in evolution? That doesn't mean that evolution is incompatible with Christianity. It only means that evolution is incompatible with a literalist reading of the bible. Dr White's claims notwithstanding, there are plenty of Christians who do not take the bible literally, and there are no Christians who take everything in the bible literally.

Also, and to be nitpicky, I disagree that death is necessary for evolution. Evolution - ie, change - will happen as long as there are mutations which are passed onto progeny. Life is necessary for evolution - ie, birth - not death. Tho the lack of death would certainly affect the course of evolution.

[ThisShouldMakeSense]

Originally Posted by lilithu

... Adam and Eve is a story, an allegory describing our own condition and how we make choices.

i know this isn't on the same topic and i'd be happy to move it elsewhere, but i'm interested in knowing why you think adam and eve didn't exist. do you believe other bible characters existed such as Jesus? Because if you do believe in Jesus and his line of ancestors, then you should also believe that adam was real as he is listed in jesus' line of ancestors....

[Terrywoodenpic]

Very little in the Bible is of a scientific nature.
It's strength lies in the way it uses fable and other stories to get across the message of God.
As we all know there is not even one definitive version of the Bible. So it can hardly be true in detail. and it need not be to serve it's function.
Evolution is about science and the species and how they have changed. it is not in competition with the Bible.

Terry
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Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by ThisShouldMakeSense

i know this isn't on the same topic and i'd be happy to move it elsewhere, but i'm interested in knowing why you think adam and eve didn't exist. do you believe other bible characters existed such as Jesus? Because if you do believe in Jesus and his line of ancestors, then you should also believe that adam was real as he is listed in jesus' line of ancestors....

Your logic does not hold. The Egyptian pharaohs claimed to have been descended from their gods. Do you believe that the pharaohs existed? If so, does that mean that their gods must have existed?

I don't believe that Adam and Eve existed because I don't believe that two human beings sprang into existence from dust and the rib of dust. I do believe that the story has great spritual meaning and should be taken seriously, which to me is more important than literal truth. I think that if one treats the bible as a history report, one misses its real significance. But that's each person's prerogative.

[michel]

Is there any common ground between religion and science, then ?
How do Religions accept medical science - prolonging life; saving Children from dying at birth, only to grow up disabled ?- is that what God intended ? if it isn't are those who follow experimentation doing 'wrong' by God?

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by lilithu

I don't believe that Adam and Eve existed because I don't believe that two human beings sprang into existence from dust and the rib of dust. I do believe that the story has great spritual meaning and should be taken seriously, which to me is more important than literal truth. I think that if one treats the bible as a history report, one misses its real significance.

Damn, I really appreciate you!

[Jaiket]

Originally Posted by lilithu

I do believe that the story has great spritual meaning and should be taken seriously, which to me is more important than literal truth.

What's that?

[Terrywoodenpic]

Originally Posted by michel

Is there any common ground between religion and science, then ?
How do Religions accept medical science - prolonging life; saving Children from dying at birth, only to grow up disabled ?- is that what God intended ? if it isn't are those who follow experimentation doing 'wrong' by God?

Science was not even thought of when the Bible was written so one can not expect it to express scientific Ideas.
Never the less the Bible teachings give us guidance on how to live all of our lives. The teaching of Jesus give us even clearer paths to follow.
This all applies to Scientists as to the rest of us. Scientists and science have been of great benefit to us and to the world. Equally it has done great damage in wars and pollution.
Science is done by men for men, it is far better when it is done by men for God.

Terry
_______________________________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by truthseekingsoul

What's that?

Literal truth is that water is composed of hydrogen and oxygen. Literal truth is that there are 31 days in July. As for spiritual meaning, I can't tell you specifically what it is because it is inherently subjective. I can't say that the Adam and Eve story means this... and you must accept it because it is the truth. What I can say is that the Adam and Eve story is an existential story - it's about choice and the consequences of choice, which is the heart of what it means to exist in this world. Every time we make a choice, we close off some possibilities and create new ones, we define/create ourselves. As to what A&E's choice actually was and what the consequences were, that is up to each person to wrestle with and that is why it is such a powerful story. I have had different answers to those questions for each stage of my life, and continue to reinterpret it. In that way, the story remains much more relevant to me than if it were a historical record about two people who lived 6,000(?) years ago.