Lisbon Treaty-is it an EU constitution (reject, advent, service, Zen)

[Fluffy]

What specifically do you not like about having an EU constitution? Is it just a sovereignty issue for you or is there more to it?

[Panda]

Originally Posted by misanthropic_clown

It's interesting to note the English have an unelected Prime Minister, forcing decisions on constitutional convention without electoral consent, who was responsible for throwing our country into an economic recession...and yet there are no protests on the streets when he clings firmly to the office in which he does not belong.

It shows the stupidity of the British people as much as it does the incompetency of the idiot 'in charge'

Oh I love it when people talk about the UK and call it England. If you knew anything about the UK voting system you would know we do not vote for Prime Minister we vote for which party we want and the leader of the party with most seats is PM.

[stephenw]

Originally Posted by Fluffy

What specifically do you not like about having an EU constitution? Is it just a sovereignty issue for you or is there more to it?

In principal I'm against the idea of an EU superstate. Sovereignty is a big issue.
Regarding this treaty specifically I'm against it for reasons of sovereignty and for other reasons too. Including:-
1. The Lisbon Treaty is a re-badged EU constitution. All the people of the EU should be voting on this not just Ireland. Especially since the EU constitution was voted down by the people of France and Holland. Giscard D'Estaing an author of the rejected constitution said "Public opinion will be led to adopt without knowing it, the proposals that we dare not present to them directly...All the earlier proposals will be in the new text (i.e. the Lisbon Treaty) but will be hidden and disguised in some way"

2. Our political classes are trying to bully us into this. They are 'warning' us against voting no. The French foreign minister came straight out with an open threat - I will not be threatened by any politician. They have forgotten that they work for us, not the other way 'round.

3. In voting for this I would be voting away my right to vote in the future. No way. The Eurocrats are not accounable enough as it is.

4. The loss of our Commissioner

5. The transfer of power from small countries to big ones within the EU

6. I do not trust them.

[kai]

Originally Posted by stephenw

In principal I'm against the idea of an EU superstate. Sovereignty is a big issue.
Regarding this treaty specifically I'm against it for reasons of sovereignty and for other reasons too. Including:-
1. The Lisbon Treaty is a re-badged EU constitution. All the people of the EU should be voting on this not just Ireland. Especially since the EU constitution was voted down by the people of France and Holland. Giscard D'Estaing an author of the rejected constitution said "Public opinion will be led to adopt without knowing it, the proposals that we dare not present to them directly...All the earlier proposals will be in the new text (i.e. the Lisbon Treaty) but will be hidden and disguised in some way"

2. Our political classes are trying to bully us into this. They are 'warning' us against voting no. The French foreign minister came straight out with an open threat - I will not be threatened by any politician. They have forgotten that they work for us, not the other way 'round.

3. In voting for this I would be voting away my right to vote in the future. No way. The Eurocrats are not accounable enough as it is.

4. The loss of our Commissioner

5. The transfer of power from small countries to big ones within the EU

6. I do not trust them.

me neither!

[kai]

Originally Posted by Fluffy

What specifically do you not like about having an EU constitution? Is it just a sovereignty issue for you or is there more to it?

are you kidding look how long it took for the Irish to get sovereignty, now are they going to give it away?

[kai]

todays the day !

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Ireland in crunch EU treaty vote

[stephenw]

Fingers crossed. I'll be keeping an eye on the tallys during the day.

[MidnightBlue]

I'm generally in favor of European unity, but I think you're quite right to be suspicious of the way this is being shoved through, and I'd like to see certain points better addressed, especially neutrality and the potential for dragging Ireland into the military adventures of other countries.

I'm not seeing any results yet, but they're saying turnout was low and the Yes party was hoping for a high turnout.

[kai]

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

I'm generally in favor of European unity, but I think you're quite right to be suspicious of the way this is being shoved through, and I'd like to see certain points better addressed, especially neutrality and the potential for dragging Ireland into the military adventures of other countries.

I'm not seeing any results yet, but they're saying turnout was low and the Yes party was hoping for a high turnout.

this may be of interest too you, concerning plans for a "European army"

EU looks to the next 50 years – and an army? - Times Online