End times, Now? (Jesus, bible)

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Mystic-als

The end times are said to be happening now. I often see posts that say something like "in these end times". How do we know that we are living in the end times. In the sense that the bible foretold. I know we are living in the days after Jesus but does that make it the end times?

Jesus gave a few indications for the "end times."

- The Gospel would be preached in all the world
- the Jews would return to Israel
- the "abomination of desolation" as spoken by Daniel the prophet.

Whatever one makes of the 3rd criterion, the first two have, by most accounts, happened and have happened for some while, so I suppose it's no wonder there's so much talk of being in the "end times."

What do you envision the "end times" being like or resulting in?

[Elvendon]

Originally Posted by Booko

Jesus gave a few indications for the "end times."

- The Gospel would be preached in all the world
- the Jews would return to Israel
- the "abomination of desolation" as spoken by Daniel the prophet.

Whatever one makes of the 3rd criterion, the first two have, by most accounts, happened and have happened for some while, so I suppose it's no wonder there's so much talk of being in the "end times."

What do you envision the "end times" being like or resulting in?

Didn't he also say that all the end-times things would happen before (his) current generation would be spent? Which puts a spanner in the works

[Elvendon]

I must say... when I read apocalyptic passages, I usually feel greatly concerned. My heart often feels heavy - am I on the right path? Am I following Jesus' teachings in the spirit that he would approve of? Would he see me as an evil hypocrite for not giving all my money to the poor in Africa? There are so many Christian paths all professing to be the "right" one, often exclusively, so which one is it?

Sometimes what I read in the Bible flies in the face of what I feel moral and right... sometimes it feels just like I had written it myself. The thought that my life and quest to find out what is right will be cut short fills me with dread.

Elvendon

[may]

Originally Posted by Mystic-als

Okay. if I have followed this correctly. The end times have happened already but not here?

we have been living in the time of the end since 1914 , according to bible prophecy and bible chronology that was the time when Jesus was made king of Gods heavenly kingdom, it does not mean the end of the planet ,but it means the end of man ruling himself independant of God. the heavenly kingdom is now well established and ready to go into action.
And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite Daniel 2;44

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Elvendon

Didn't he also say that all the end-times things would happen before (his) current generation would be spent? Which puts a spanner in the works

It's what makes eschatology such fun.

Are you referring to the passage in Luke 21?

If so, the fulfillment spoken of in verse 32 would surely apply to at least some of the things Jesus referred to in vs. 7ff, yes?

Some of them were indeed fulfilled. In vs. 16 it talks about Christians being betrayed, even by families. ok...that happened.

In vs 20-22 He seems to be talking about the destruction of the temple, which was in 70AD if memory serves. Um, yeah some people He spoke to would've lived to have seen that. But again, that's the *creation* of desolation, not the end or abomination of it.

In vs. 24 Jesus refers to the coming Diaspora, and only then does he start to mention the "times of the Gentiles be fulfilled" which would turn our calendar forward to the end time (whenever one believes that to be).

In vs. 27 He talks about returning.

In vs. 29-30, Jesus advises His followers that when they see signs of redemption, they'll know "summer is nigh" (or that things will soon be right with the world?)

And then in vs. 32 is that ambiguous reference to this generation seeing everything get fulfilled. That problem is ... it's ambiguous.

Does it means that the immediate prophecies he mentions early in this passage will be fulfilled within a generation? Um, well they were. Does it mean "God's gonna fulfill things whether you like it or not and no one's getting in His way"? It might mean that at the same time, and if one believes in God is also kinda hard to argue with. Does it necessarily refer to the end times being fulfilled within a generation? Maybe. Maybe not.

If you look at that passage in concert with other prophetic passages, especially those regarding times in say, Daniel and Revelation, then clearly Jesus *cannot* be referring to the "end times" happening within a generation. If that were so, why would John of Patmos write Revelation anyway? Wouldn't it be kinda moot?

I would argue that other prophecies in the Bible are not so ambiguous, and to make any sense of these, it's best to try and make sense of them together rather than isolation. You can get all sorts of bizzarre things trying to understand prophecies in isolation, as we've seen throughout history.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by may

we have been living in the time of the end since 1914 , according to bible prophecy and bible chronology that was the time when Jesus was made king of Gods heavenly kingdom, it does not mean the end of the planet ,but it means the end of man ruling himself independant of God. the heavenly kingdom is now well established and ready to go into action.
And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite Daniel 2;44

It may be interesting to consider that the person who inspired the foundation of your denomination set the date a bit earlier than that. Did you check out any of those links on Rev. Miller I sent you a couple of months ago? I was rather hoping to hear your views on them, and maybe an explanation of why your denomination revised his original dates. I'm assuming there's some Biblical reason for doing so, and considering prophecies, there is often room for alternate understandings. I was interested in how 1914 was derived, esp. as it doesn't seem to fit in with any of the Biblical references to 1260, or at least not that I've figured out. I wondered what I'd miscalculated.

At any rate, I agree that the "end times" is not referring to the destruction of the Earth. I think that's more an unfortunate tradition based on a bad translation or understanding, and it certainly doesn't make sense in light of Mark 13:20 and Matt. 24:22.

[may]

Originally Posted by Booko

It may be interesting to consider that the person who inspired the foundation of your denomination set the date a bit earlier than that. Did you check out any of those links on Rev. Miller I sent you a couple of months ago? I was rather hoping to hear your views on them, and maybe an explanation of why your denomination revised his original dates. I'm assuming there's some Biblical reason for doing so, and considering prophecies, there is often room for alternate understandings. I was interested in how 1914 was derived, esp. as it doesn't seem to fit in with any of the Biblical references to 1260, or at least not that I've figured out. I wondered what I'd miscalculated.

At any rate, I agree that the "end times" is not referring to the destruction of the Earth. I think that's more an unfortunate tradition based on a bad translation or understanding, and it certainly doesn't make sense in light of Mark 13:20 and Matt. 24:22.

the early bible students did lots of roving around the pages of the bible , but Jehovah reveals things at his own time , and NOW in these last days many things are being and have been revealed. so i like to be progressive and move along with new understanding about how the bible is being revealed in these the last days. thrilling times indeed .
And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant. Daniel 12;4 yes the true knowledge about Gods heavenly kingdom goverment , and the prophecies of the bible relating to the kingdom and Gods purpose for the earth , have and are being revealed in these the last days. and they are being revealed at the proper time . MATTHEW 24;45-47
Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings..................... And he (Jesus)sure has done that , keeping awake to bible prophecy as the early bible students did do, has reaped many blessings in this the last days............... nolonger is there darkness, but enlightenment indeed.

[Mystic-als]

Originally Posted by may

1914

how do you get that date?

[may]

Originally Posted by Mystic-als

how do you get that date?

the 1914 date is a very very significant date in the bible. according to bible prophecy and bible chronology , many people say it does not say 1914 in the bible, and that is quite right , but Jesus being given the right to the kingship is right on time for that date . yes the bible has many prophecies which are related to the heavenly kingdom..... the following is only one thing that proves the date 1914 is very significant

1914—A

Significant Year in Bible Prophecy

DECADES in advance, Bible students proclaimed that there would be significant developments in 1914. What were these, and what evidence points to 1914 as such an important year?
As recorded at Luke 21:24, Jesus said: "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations ["the times of the Gentiles," King James Version] are fulfilled." Jerusalem had been the capital city of the Jewish nation—the seat of rulership of the line of kings from the house of King David. (Psalm 48:1, 2) However, these kings were unique among national leaders. They sat on "Jehovah’s throne" as representatives of God himself. (1 Chronicles 29:23) Jerusalem was thus a symbol of Jehovah’s rulership.
How and when, though, did God’s rulership begin to be "trampled on by the nations"? This happened in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. "Jehovah’s throne" became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted. (2 Kings 25:1-26) Would this ‘trampling’ go on forever? No, for the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem’s last king, Zedekiah: "Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. . . . It will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him." (Ezekiel 21:26, 27) The one who has "the legal right" to the Davidic crown is Christ Jesus. (Luke 1:32, 33) So the ‘trampling’ would end when Jesus became King.
When would that grand event occur? Jesus showed that the Gentiles would rule for a fixed period of time. The account in Daniel chapter 4 holds the key to knowing how long that period would last. It relates a prophetic dream experienced by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He saw an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump could not grow because it was banded with iron and copper. An angel declared: "Let seven times pass over it."—Daniel 4:10-16.
In the Bible, trees are sometimes used to represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) So the chopping down of the symbolic tree represents how God’s rulership, as expressed through the kings at Jerusalem, would be interrupted. However, the vision served notice that this ‘trampling of Jerusalem’ would be temporary—a period of "seven times." How long a period is that?
Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equal "a thousand two hundred and sixty days." "Seven times" would therefore last twice as long, or 2,520 days. But the Gentile nations did not stop ‘trampling’ on God’s rulership a mere 2,520 days after Jerusalem’s fall. Evidently, then, this prophecy covers a much longer period of time. On the basis of Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6, which speak of "a day for a year," the "seven times" would cover 2,520 years.

The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne. The period ended in October 1914. At that time, "the appointed times of the nations" ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God’s heavenly King.—Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14.

Just as Jesus predicted, his "presence" as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments—war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences. (Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11) Such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact that 1914 indeed marked the birth of God’s heavenly Kingdom and the beginning of "the last days" of this present wicked system of things.—2 Timothy 3:1-5.