Infant Baptism (ritual, soul, grace, church, pray)

[Terrywoodenpic]

Originally Posted by joeboonda

I see, thanks. I hadn't noticed what the forum was, and respect that different churches have different traditions. I just wondered if it was specifically taught in the Bible. Yes, you speak of the one specific instance when the jailor in Acts, who asked Paul and Silas what he must do to be saved, and they told him, "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved and all thy house." After he believed he was baptised. Considering the miracle of the earthquake and the chains breaking and the jailer almost killing himself because he thought everyone had escaped, I am sure his family believed when they heard of the miracle of what happened and were saved and then baptised. It is only assumption that babies were baptised so where the Bible is silent, so must I be.

I do not wish to debate the question of infant baptism, I was curious where it came from and if it was anywhere in the Bible. I had been attending a Methodist 'contemporary service', and enjoyed it, but they practice this, too, so i was trying to look into it a bit. I know that the Eunich asked Philip after he explained the Gospel to him if he could be baptised as they had come to some water. Phillip told him that if he believes with all his heart he could be baptised, and he answered, yes, I believe Jesus is the Son of God, and then he was baptised. All the baptising in the N.T. church was done after they believed, which is where we get the term 'believer's baptism', which is for me more scriptural. I am one who bases their beliefs only in the Authority of God's Word, but I have no problem with traditions of churches if they align with God's Word. I get that from 2 Tim 3:16-17 that says: 16 God has breathed life into all of Scripture. It is useful for teaching us what is true. It is useful for correcting our mistakes. It is useful for making our lives whole again. It is useful for training us to do what is right. 17 By using Scripture, a man of God can be completely prepared to do every good thing.

I think dedicating an infant to the Lord is wonderful, it is proclaiming that the parents are dedicated to raising the child in the Lord. But I believe after a person has trusted Christ, they should get baptised, as a symbolic outward profession of their faith in keeping with how the N.T. church did it. Anyway, I am not contending with Anglican beliefs, but sharing mine so we may all be enriched. I know that the baptism thing has been a big thorn in the Church for centuries, believers persecuting and even killing other believers over it, which is a shame. I hope we live in a day and age where we are free to practice our beliefs how we want and still discuss them amicably with one another.
Peace and Love,
Mike

It is not appropriate for you to comment in this forum. However you are welcome to asks questions, and to learn from Anglicans beliefs.

[Terrywoodenpic]

Anglicans have no doubt about the destiny of the soul of an unbaptised child.
A child is totally innocent and will be received by God.

Some Anglicans have a personal belief in original sin and the consequences for a child would for those people be in doubt.

[spiritually inclined]

Anglicans have no doubt about the destiny of the soul of an unbaptised child.
A child is totally innocent and will be received by God.

This is much more acceptable to me than the uncertainty portrayed in the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church.

Some Anglicans have a personal belief in original sin and the consequences for a child would for those people be in doubt.

The doctrine of original sin is not taught as an official doctrine in the Anglican church?

James

[Terrywoodenpic]

Originally Posted by spiritually inclined

This is much more acceptable to me than the uncertainty portrayed in the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church.



The doctrine of original sin is not taught as an official doctrine in the Anglican church?

James

It might have been at one time, even at my age I don't know. But as most churchs had roots in the ancient Catholic tradition it would seem likely.
However it is not taught now, and is not believed by any Anglican I have met.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by spiritually inclined

The doctrine of original sin is not taught as an official doctrine in the Anglican church?

James

Hi James,

Original sin is listed as one of the 39 Articles, an historical document of the Anglican Communion. However, the 39 Articles are not a profession of faith and, for example, clergy are not made to swear belief in them before being ordained.

As Terry has said, there is probably a wide range of thinking about the doctrine of original sin throughout the Anglican Communion.

Welcome to RF and hey, have we met before?

luna

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by spiritually inclined

The Catechism of the Catholic church is doubtful as to the destiny of a soul of a departed infant who has not been baptized. I don't agree with this at all. How would Anglicans view the baptism of an infant? Isn't this like choosing your child's religion? Or is it a way to show that God has grace on even the infant? I would like some more insight into this.

James

From the Anglican Catechism:

Q: Why then are infants baptized?

A: Infants are baptized so that they can share citizenship in the Covenant, membership in Christ, and redemption by God.

Q: How are the promises for infants made and carried out?

A: Promises are made for them by their parents and sponsors, who guarantee that the infants will be brought up within the Church, to know Christ and be able to follow him.

There is more from the Catechism here.

[joeboonda]

Originally Posted by Terrywoodenpic

It is not appropriate for you to comment in this forum. However you are welcome to asks questions, and to learn from Anglicans beliefs.

Roger that, thank-you Terry. I guess I can ask a question, i was reading about how the person or baby is anointed with the oil and that seals them with the Holy Spirit if I understood it right. Do you also believe that when a person places their trust in Christ and is born-again by that act of faith that they are regenerated, indwelt, gifted and sealed by the Holy Spirit or does that happen when the oil is applied to them? I know in the USA some of the charismatic/pentecostals believe the baptising of the Holy Spirit does not happen at regeneration but as a later event, which is not what I believe, but just wondered your perspective on that...
Thanks,
Mike

[Terrywoodenpic]

Originally Posted by joeboonda

Roger that, thank-you Terry. I guess I can ask a question, i was reading about how the person or baby is anointed with the oil and that seals them with the Holy Spirit if I understood it right. Do you also believe that when a person places their trust in Christ and is born-again by that act of faith that they are regenerated, indwelt, gifted and sealed by the Holy Spirit or does that happen when the oil is applied to them? I know in the USA some of the charismatic/pentecostals believe the baptising of the Holy Spirit does not happen at regeneration but as a later event, which is not what I believe, but just wondered your perspective on that...
Thanks,
Mike

being 'borne again' is not an Anglican belief nor is it mine.
There are Charismatics in the Anglican churches though I have not come across them.
This It is actually a difficult question... as the thirty nine articles do mention being saved by faith alone...But whilst there must have been a time when the Anglicans followed the thirty nine articles... it is a very puritanical form of Anglicanism as established during the reformation. The Anglo Catholic wing of Anglicanism have always been nearer to a loose catholic stance than a strict protestant one.
The Anglo Catholic wing has been the predominate one in the UK for some many years.

[Terrywoodenpic]

Originally Posted by joeboonda

Do you also believe that when a person places their trust in Christ and is born-again by that act of faith that they are regenerated, indwelt, gifted and sealed by the Holy Spirit or does that happen when the oil is applied to them?

Mike

The whole question of receiving the Holy Spirit Is interesting.
I have a somewhat heretical view, in as much as I believe it would be more difficult to avoid the Holy Spirit than to receive it.
The Holy spirit was sent by God to all men. We have the choice to accept the offer or reject it. But if we do one or the other the Holy spirit is still with us.... as a Gift.

The sealing with oil is an outward sign of Gods Gift. and is only able to be performed with oil that has been consecrated by a Bishop.

[joeboonda]

Originally Posted by Terrywoodenpic

being 'borne again' is not an Anglican belief nor is it mine.
There are Charismatics in the Anglican churches though I have not come across them.
This It is actually a difficult question... as the thirty nine articles do mention being saved by faith alone...But whilst there must have been a time when the Anglicans followed the thirty nine articles... it is a very puritanical form of Anglicanism as established during the reformation. The Anglo Catholic wing of Anglicanism have always been nearer to a loose catholic stance than a strict protestant one.
The Anglo Catholic wing has been the predominate one in the UK for some many years.

Ok, thanks for that information. I honestly thought being born again was any Christians belief whatever the denomination, as Jesus said, "Ye must be born again." May be just difference in wording. okay, anyway thanks for the last posts!
Peace and Love,
Mike