"Orthodixie" (Jesus, priest, ritual, salvation, grace)

[No*s]

I liked this article a while back, and I thought I would post a link to it .

I'm a Southerner. I was born and reared a Southern Baptist; educated as an Episcopalian, and converted to Orthodox Christianity a decade ago. Since then, I've been struggling to be Orthodox. As a missionary priest, I've also struggled to bring others to Orthodoxy in the South. More than anything, I've learned that I have a lot to learn. I've also concluded that Orthodoxy, in its plethora of jurisdictions, will have to learn some things, appreciate some things, about Southern Culture before ever being truly successful in bringing Southerners to the Faith.

I was reared in a small town near Charlotte, North Carolina. Growing up, I never met a Jew, much less a Muslim. Lutherans were rare enough in my hometown, much less Roman Catholics. Basically, we were Baptists and Methodists, blacks and whites. I'd never even heard of Orthodox Christianity until I was on my way to the Episcopal seminary in the 1980's. Come to think of it, I'll bet most folks in my hometown still have never heard of Orthodoxy.

http://www.antiochian.org/893

The article correctly outlines, IMO, some of the challenges Orthodoxy faces in the South, albeit a version more idealized than reality. I'm sure this is different in the East, the West Coast, or other such places. Still, I found the article enlightening, and it hit a sort of sweet spot.

No*s -- Born and raised in TX and longing for it again.

[Joannicius]

Great article...........being born and raised in OK, much of this touched my heart also....Thank You

Here is another with meat in it............



Here is an extract from a wonderful interview with the Patriarch of Alexandria. May God bless each of you, Fr. David

"It is obviously wrong to drift into Orthodoxy because it offers a safe harbour. Orthodoxy involves struggle not complacency. The Orthodox Christian is literally a "soldier of Christ", a fighter, constantly championing the cause. He struggles throughout his life, in a daily and unremitting battle. For in Orthodoxy, we do not experience religious ‘moments’, but rather our whole lives are sanctified; we are truly blessed by our participation in the sacramental life of the Church, through which we receive the Divine Grace of the Holy Spirit.

Orthodoxy is not about having a good time, an easy ride - rather it involves a spiritual struggle against transgression, passion and sinful desires. The Orthodox Christian must fight constantly with his old self searching, through God’s Grace, for the new self, reborn in Christ.

Those who are spiritually idle or indifferent have no place in such an environment; not because they are inadequate, or that the Church is indifferent to them; but because, of their own accord, they isolate themselves from the Church; they do not want to belong. Even though God wishes that all men be saved, when a person does not want to be saved, then God will respect his freedom of choice. This is why it is the religiously complacent, the deluded, and those who seek material reward, who forsake Orthodoxy. They have never truly lived in the spirituality of the Orthodox Christian life, and so they abandon it, betray it, turn their backs without ever truly understanding. It follows, therefore, that Orthodoxy is available to all mankind, and it is up to each of us to decide how Orthodoxy will live within our own life."

[No*s]

Yes, and thank you .

That was an excellent article, and it reminds me that I must keep up the good fight. I still have much work to do on repenting of my indifferences. I still have life and room to struggle, though (though, I am certain my weedy field will never be cleaned in this life...there are just too many thistles).

[robtex]

can yall sum up some of the major differences between a baptist and an orthodox and why one ain't a just another variation of the other? Even if there is a lot of differnence with the large amount of Methodists and non-demominational Christians why is it neccessary for yet another branch of a Jesus based religion? I am asking not debating. As a footnote Lutheran's have a slightly larger presense in southern and central Texas (mabye do to the flux of small post Germans settlements around central Texas?).

[No*s]

Originally Posted by robtex

can yall sum up some of the major differences between a baptist and an orthodox and why one ain't a just another variation of the other? Even if there is a lot of differnence with the large amount of Methodists and non-demominational Christians why is it neccessary for yet another branch of a Jesus based religion? I am asking not debating. As a footnote Lutheran's have a slightly larger presense in southern and central Texas (mabye do to the flux of small post Germans settlements around central Texas?).

I figure we can, though it might invite a humdinger of a response from others .

1). The Orthodox Church doesn't claim to be just another branch of Christianity. It claims to be the first. To build on this, it feels the Church is indivisable (for a variety of reasons), so a separation (not just an inadmission of communion, but all-out separation) is splitting oneself away from the vine. Baptists schismed from Separatists who schismed from the Anglican Church who schismed from the Roman Catholic Church who split from us. It's important, here, because the Church is where Christ's mysteries are delivered.

3). Soteriology. Orthodoxy doesn't hold to the view that God had to hit God to pay a legal debt just so that He could forgive people, making Christ a ransom to God. Rather, "by death Christ has trampled down death." Christ, by bringing the divine nature down to the lowest level of our corruption enabled us to unite to God. Without this, we could not do this. For only Christ "has ascended to heaven, but He who descended from heaven, even the Son of God, who is in heaven."

4). Orthodoxy doesn't view grace as a divine favor. Rather, it is the uncreated energy of God that energizes our potentials (and this very language is used in the NT). This, in its turn, emphasizes a more relational salvation.

5). Orthodoxy believes the Eucharist and the other Mysteries to impart the grace of God, and thus, energize our potentials (creating a need for apostolic succession at the same time). Baptists firmly believe them to be symbolic.

6). From this, Hell is not a place, but who we are. When we die and come into the full presence of God, what we are internally will determine how we experience Him. If our internal image is in a state of disrepair, then He will be a not-so-pleasant experience. If, however, it is not, then the presence of God will burn away the remaining corruption, and He will be bliss.

In Baptists, though, there are no eternal energies, and so, Hell is something fashioned by God, or by us. Often, it is called separation from God, and thus, quite different in outlook from the preceding.

7). The image within us can only be repaired by the grace of God, and we need the indwelling Spirit to do so. Without this indwelling Spirit, well, we are dependent on the external workings of God to fix something within us. The indwelling Spirit, thus, begins a process of healing us our whole life.

Finally, salvation in the Baptist Church is largely a legal transaction. You pray a prayer, and God imparts forgiveness upon you for your sins when you do. In others, God forgives some, but not others. In either case, the forgiveness heals the gulf, and after that, we can have a poor relationship, but no harm will come to us.

In Orthodoxy, forgiveness is easy. The problem lies in the intersection of three facts: we are in a state of corruption or disrepair ("sin" means simply missing the mark...in any fashion, not just violating a commandment), God just is, and that which is corrupt experiences God as a burning fire (an analogy).

I think you can see from the view of the Mysteries, the indwelling Spirit, the energies of God, and how we relate to God why Orthodoxy feels a need to assert itself.

The above aren't the only differences, but they should be enough to answer the question . A complete answer would be very long.

[Joannicius]

Great response

Another aspect of the understanding of the atonement which being misunderstood brought the error of substitutional punitive death doctrine is:

Instead of us being born with the guilt of Adam on our heads and therefore condemned from birth, we actually are only born with the results of Adams sin which is decay, corruption and death. Therefore when an infant or small child is baptized. they are being to be joined to the Body of Christ, literally and not figuratively and not for the expiation of their sin. If the Roman Church knew this they wouldn't have made up the doctrine of Immaculate Conception because we are all born without the guilt of sin.

[Linus7]

I thought it was a pretty good article.

I was born in Memphis, Tennessee. My dad is from New Orleans, and my mom is from Arkansas.

My dad was in the Navy, though, so I grew up all over the country. I have lived in the South most of my life, however.

I like the idea of Orthodoxy moving beyond the old Northeastern ethnic enclaves and absorbing some American traits. That would not entail any essential changes, just the formation of a truly American Church.

[michel]

Hey No*s;

I wish I had started on my 'quest' earlier in life; I sometimes feel 'out of my depth' when confronted with the knowledge of some of the forum members. Makes me wish I had taken this 'path' earlier in life. Still, as it says in Ecclesiastes, 'For everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven'. I guess I wasn't ready when younger!

[Matrona]

Originally Posted by Linus7

I thought it was a pretty good article.

I was born in Memphis, Tennessee. My dad is from New Orleans, and my mom is from Arkansas.

My dad was in the Navy, though, so I grew up all over the country. I have lived in the South most of my life, however.

Where have you lived? I'm a navy brat too, although we didn't move around. I grew up in Charleston, SC.

[No*s]

Originally Posted by Linus7

I thought it was a pretty good article.

I was born in Memphis, Tennessee. My dad is from New Orleans, and my mom is from Arkansas.

My dad was in the Navy, though, so I grew up all over the country. I have lived in the South most of my life, however.

I like the idea of Orthodoxy moving beyond the old Northeastern ethnic enclaves and absorbing some American traits. That would not entail any essential changes, just the formation of a truly American Church.

Yes, it would be a nice thing, and an Orthodox BBQ when the calendar permits might bring more people than an ethnic feast lol.