Dream of Thomas Paine (ritual, moral, Torah, Deists, contradiction)

[yuvgotmel]

I have been talking about Thomas Paine lately on other threads. And I thought it would be interesting to show you all when and how I came about my fascination for Thomas Paine. Before having this dream (cut-and-pasted below), I knew nothing of Thomas Paine, other than he lived a long time ago and wrote something. I had no more knowledge of him other than that he was influential at one time in American history.

Dream from Nap on evening of Saturday, July 8, 2006:

Woke at Approx. 10:12 p.m.

I was experimenting flying backwards in some sort of vehicle that was kind of a like car, but it can fly, hover. It reminds me of a swing. The kind of swing that are looped, hanging in a tree: a one-seater, usually.

I was going backwards, witnessed by three adults (2 females and 1 male who were standing at the corner of a city street within a suburb area, where there were houses). There was a swing hanging from a tree behind them. It was one of those red plastic toddler swings.

I could experience (to some degree) the momentum of acceleration and movement. Everything was going backwards (through my perspective). As acceleration increased, it appeared like a warp tunnel or very, very blurred images from outside of me. In other words, I was going so fast, my environment was blurred. I could feel the acceleration and deceleration. I saw the images of my environment slow and become clearer upon deceleration. Interestingly, I ‘landed’ right at the same place I had started. (Perhaps it warped time?) The vehicle goes so fast that even the deceleration process requires much distance to completely stop. One could conceivable go whole continents, or perhaps whole planets or more within just the deceleration process to come to a stop.

The next scene in the dream was a battle scene. It looked like a war between the “cowboys and Indians,” but there was a 1957 turquoise and white Chevy driving in the middle of the same grassy and hilly terrain being used as the battle field.

The scene shifted again immediately, and I was listening to a curator or tour guide of a museum talking about a folklore concerning Thomas Payne. The museum guide said that after Thomas Payne’s head was cut off [during a battle], he picked up his own head, with his own fingers. He then turned his severed head to see his dead enemies [on the battle field]. To which he replied (from his severed head), “It thrills me.”

There was something about his fingers being very long. And only through a surviving sketch of Thomas Payne’s fingers did the researchers know whether or not there was any validity to the folklore, so said the museum guide.

Then I woke up.

On the evening of the next day, July 9, 2006, a friend and I were talking via Yahoo! Messenger. He holds a Bachelor’s degree in History; and he had just finished telling me that he had spent the previous evening reading about the French Revolution. It was then that I related my dream to him. Immediately, he began in internet search for information concerning Thomas Paine.

We were both shocked at the results. Apparently, Thomas Paine, who lived during the time of the French Revolution, had been imprisoned in France and was scheduled to be executed. The common form of execution, at that time in France was beheading by the guillotine, which is a French invention. Thomas Paine escaped from the French prison and fled to the Americas, where he died, at an old age, in New York City. He was so hated that his burial ground was desecrated and his skull and right hand had been stolen. Researchers, even today, are trying to find DNA evidence to examine persons claiming to own the skull or hand of Thomas Paine.

Furthermore, another parallel in the dream was the obvious swing “hanging in a tree.” There was, of the same last name, a man by the name of Lewis Paine, who lived during the Civil War. He was a conspirator and friend of John Wilkes Booth. He was later hanged from a tree; afterwards, his burial ground was also desecrated and his skull removed.

Other symbolism in the dream included the number 57. Interestingly enough, in the US Constitution, in the First Amendment, concerning Religion, Thomas Paine wrote “Document 57,” which is an article detailing the necessity of the separation of Church and State. http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_religions57.html

…By the way, the evening of July 9, 2006, I had never studied Thomas Paine or known of any of the information concerning his imprisonment in France or the desecration of his grave.


In 1957, Lee Hays wrote a song using the words of Thomas Paine. The words were from the pamphlet Common Sense. A great poet, Walt Whitman, encouraged poets to write about great events of American history. The song was titled "Wasn't That a Time?"

Song Lyric as sung by Dick Gaughan

As I dreamed out one evening
By a river of discontent
I bumped straight into old Tom Paine
As running down the road he went
He said, "I can't stop right now, child,
King George is after me
He'd have a rope around my throat
And hang me on the Liberty Tree"

But I will dance to Tom Paine's bones
Dance to Tom Paine's bones
Dance in the oldest boots I own
To the rhythm of Tom Paine's bones
I will dance to Tom Paine's bones
Dance to Tom Paine's bones
Dance in the oldest boots I own
To the rhythm of Tom Paine's bones

"I only talked about freedom
And justice for everyone
But since the very first word I spoke
I've been looking down the barrel of a gun
They say I preached revolution
Let me say in my defence
That all I did wherever I went
Was to talk a lot of common sense"

Old Tom Paine he ran so fast
He left me standing still
And there I was, a piece of paper in my hand
Standing at the top of the hill
It said, "This is the Age Of Reason
These are The Rights Of Man
Kick off religion and monarchy"
It was written there in Tom Paine's plan

Old Tom Paine, there he lies
Nobody laughs and nobody cries
Where he's gone or how he fares
Nobody knows and nobody cares

But I will dance to Tom Paine's bones
Dance to Tom Paine's bones
Dance in the oldest boots I own
To the rhythm of Tom Paine's bones
I will dance to Tom Paine's bones
Dance to Tom Paine's bones
Dance in the oldest boots I own
To the rhythm of Tom Paine's bones

[yuvgotmel]

Lyrics to "Wasn't That a Time" as sung by Peter, Paul and Mary:

Our fathers bled at Valley Forge, the snow was red with blood
Their faith was worn at Valley Forge,
Their faith was brotherhood.

Wasn't that a time, wasn't that a time?
A time to try the soul of men,
Wasn't that a terrible time?

Brave men who fought at Gettysburg now lie in soldier's graves
But there they stemmed the rebel tide
And there their faith was saved

Wasn't that a time, wasn't that a time?
A time to try the soul of men,
wasn't that a terrible time?

The wars are long, the peace is frail, the madmen come again.
There is no freedom in a land where fear and hate prevail.

Isn't this a time, isn't this a time?
A time to try the soul of men,
Isn't this a terrible time?

Our fathers bled at Valley Forge, the snow was red with blood
Their faith was worn at Valley Forge,
Their faith was brotherhood.

Wasn't that a time, wasn't that a time?
A time to try the soul of men,
Wasn't that a terrible time?

[Wandered Off]

Paine's Age of Reason is still considered one of the most influential books on what is now called "classical Deism", which was at its heyday during his life. Paine and many of the other founders of the US were Deists, arguably including Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Ethan Allen, James Madison (whose political battle with Patrick Henry gave us the concept of the separation of church and state), John Adams, and perhaps George Washington.

Some of Paine's thoughts:

The Bible is a book that has been read more and examined less than any book that ever existed.

As to the book called the bible, it is blasphemy to call it the Word of God. It is a book of lies and contradictions and a history of bad times and bad men.

There are matters in the Bible, said to be done by the express commandment of God, that are shocking to humanity and to every idea we have of moral justice.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.

Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst; every other species of tyranny is limited to the world we live in; but this attempts to stride beyond the grave, and seeks to pursue us into eternity.

My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.

[Scarlett Wampus]

That's fascinating yuvgotmel. I don't know how or why it happens but dreams can seemingly pluck things out of the air like that.

[yuvgotmel]

Originally Posted by Scarlett Wampus

That's fascinating yuvgotmel. I don't know how or why it happens but dreams can seemingly pluck things out of the air like that.

Yeah... I have had that happen before too...especially in the most powerful dream of my life.... Not sure if you have read that one, but it pertains to this year and the timing of the upcoming eclipses in August and September.

Dream Interpretation -- upcoming eclipses

As August gets closer, I will start posting that dream again and talking more about what I have learned from my research of that dream.

[Scarlett Wampus]

Great composite symbolism and synchronicity in the dream you linked to. Your analysis is a work of art too. Do you keep a dream diary?

Incidentally, when I was 16 I had a dramatic dream that symbolically represented very clearly the major events that would take place in my life for the following two years. These were things I had no inkling of when the dream occurred and only understood the striking connections in retrospect. Although it was nowhere near as rich in detail as the dream you linked to part of it heralded an encounter with occult freemasonry and such things too which changed my entire spiritual path also. Well, I didn't understand what it meant at the time but things unfolded just like the dream.

[yuvgotmel]

Originally Posted by Scarlett Wampus

Great composite symbolism and synchronicity in the dream you linked to. Your analysis is a work of art too.

Much of the research that I have found concerning that dream is available here at this link: http://www.spirit-of-the-torah.com/computer.html << That is way more in depth than what I have explained on this forum so far.

Originally Posted by Scarlett Wampus

Do you keep a dream diary?

Yes. And as you may know, that is one of the first strongly suggested requirements for a student of the occult & metaphysics. However, I started recording many of my dreams long before then. My dreams began as a very young child.

Originally Posted by Scarlett Wampus

Incidentally, when I was 16 I had a dramatic dream that symbolically represented very clearly the major events that would take place in my life for the following two years. These were things I had no inkling of when the dream occurred and only understood the striking connections in retrospect. Although it was nowhere near as rich in detail as the dream you linked to part of it heralded an encounter with occult freemasonry and such things too which changed my entire spiritual path also. Well, I didn't understand what it meant at the time but things unfolded just like the dream.

Awesome. Do you consider yourself a "dreamer"? Do you continue to have "strange" dreams? If so, I would love to read them.

I have mentioned before about a possible sub-forum devoted to dreams and dream interpretation. However, I guess that the Divination sub-forum is as good as any other.

[Scarlett Wampus]

Originally Posted by yuvgotmel

Much of the research that I have found concerning that dream is available here at this link: http://www.spirit-of-the-torah.com/computer.html << That is way more in depth than what I have explained on this forum so far.

No kidding. Way more in depth than any dream interpretation I've ever made too, but then I've never had a dream like that one you had before.

Originally Posted by yuvgotmel

Yes. And as you may know, that is one of the first strongly suggested requirements for a student of the occult & metaphysics. However, I started recording many of my dreams long before then. My dreams began as a very young child.